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Thread: Basic Strategy vs Index

  1. #1


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    Basic Strategy vs Index

    Here’s my dilemma:

    I have 66 vs 2 with TC=6 (hi-lo). Basic strategy says split 6’s otherwise hit if dealer has 7 or greater. Therefore, with dealer showing 2, I should split, right? But wait…. A pair of 6’s = 12, and my Sweet 16 index (generated by CVData specifically for my parameters) said 12 v 2 should stand when TC >= 3. Therefore I should stand, right?

    But which is it? I have two conflicting instructions. Does the Sw16 index that was generated specifically for my parameters trump the more generic split 6’s basic strategy?

    Trying to look at it logically: is me having the increased possibility of two hands of 16 (by virtue of splitting) better or worse than me having a known one hand of 16? Even with lots of 10’s available (remember, TC=6), the dealer has a very low 2, and would need to have two 10’s before a 5 thru 9. ( And us Hi-Lo counters are unsure of the density of 7-9’s in the remaining cards, and we can only hope that it was lots of spent 5’s and 6’s that got us to the high count).

    I’m unsure which to go with.

    Anyone care to share their thoughts?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Nascent Norm;251426]Here’s my dilemma:


    I have 66 vs 2 with TC=6 (hi-lo). Basic strategy says split 6’s otherwise hit if dealer has 7 or greater. Therefore, with dealer showing 2, I should split, right? But wait…. A pair of 6’s = 12, and my Sweet 16 index (generated by CVData specifically for my parameters) said 12 v 2 should stand when TC >= 3. Therefore I should stand, right?

    But which is it? I have two conflicting instructions. Does the Sw16 index that was generated specifically for my parameters trump the more generic split 6’s basic strategy?

    No, split as usual.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascent Norm View Post
    Here’s my dilemma:

    I have 66 vs 2 with TC=6 (hi-lo). Basic strategy says split 6’s otherwise hit if dealer has 7 or greater. Therefore, with dealer showing 2, I should split, right? But wait…. A pair of 6’s = 12, and my Sweet 16 index (generated by CVData specifically for my parameters) said 12 v 2 should stand when TC >= 3. Therefore I should stand, right?

    But which is it? I have two conflicting instructions. Does the Sw16 index that was generated specifically for my parameters trump the more generic split 6’s basic strategy?

    Trying to look at it logically: is me having the increased possibility of two hands of 16 (by virtue of splitting) better or worse than me having a known one hand of 16? Even with lots of 10’s available (remember, TC=6), the dealer has a very low 2, and would need to have two 10’s before a 5 thru 9. ( And us Hi-Lo counters are unsure of the density of 7-9’s in the remaining cards, and we can only hope that it was lots of spent 5’s and 6’s that got us to the high count).

    I’m unsure which to go with.

    Anyone care to share their thoughts?
    6,6 isn't 12. It's 6,6. The hard-standing indices don't apply to pairs.

    Don

  4. #4


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    When you have a pair, you look at the index for splitting pairs and follow those.

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    A 2 upcard for the dealer is much better than a 10 . what if you get 2 Double down( 6/4 vs 2 and 6/5 vs 2 ) vs a 2 upcard ? It is the EV maximizing strategy though . Standing on 12 vs 2 at tc6 (Hi Lo) and hoping the dealer to bust is still not a favorable situation .

  6. #6


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    "No, split as usual. " "6,6 isn't 12. It's 6,6. The hard-standing indices don't apply to pairs." "When you have a pair, you look at the index for splitting pairs and follow those." I get it now: splits (and doubles) strategies trump total score. Thanks to all
    Last edited by Nascent Norm; 06-10-2018 at 07:23 AM. Reason: spacing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascent Norm View Post
    I get it now: splits (and doubles) strategies trump total score. Thanks to all
    Yes there is a decision hierarchy procedure.
    1) Insurance
    2) Surrender
    3) Split
    4) Double
    5) Hit/stand

    And the pair hands aren't collected into the data that total dependent hands with the same total use to figure out the optimal strategy. That data from those hands are collected by the playing strategy sim in bins specific to the pair holding. Once the sim runs its course it analyzes the data it has collected in the relevant bins for the decision to determine the optimal play.

  8. #8


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    Pairs are pairs. Do what you should do with 6,6, use the more specific play over the more general one. Same issue comes up with 4,4 vs 6, and whether to split or double at say, TC 3, as the DD index for 8 v 6 is 1 or 2. You should still split.

  9. #9
    Senior Member SteinMeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Yes there is a decision hierarchy procedure.
    1) Insurance
    2) Surrender
    3) Split
    4) Double
    5) Hit/stand

    This is good information. Thanks Three.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    Same issue comes up with 4,4 vs 6, and whether to split or double at say, TC 3, as the DD index for 8 v 6 is 1 or 2. You should still split.
    Is there any index number where doubling is the right play for 4,4 vs 6? I would think at a very high index number, like +10 or higher doubling would make more sense than splitting. I haven’t seen an index number for this though.

  11. #11


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    Yep I can't remember the number but I remember reading there is. It's +18 or something ridiculous

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by CountinCanadian View Post
    Yep I can't remember the number but I remember reading there is. It's +18 or something ridiculous
    Thanks! That’s probably why I haven’t seen it.

  13. #13


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    Better to double than split in any high true count. But only 44 v 6, 44 v 5 is always a split.

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