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Thread: Mohegan Sun Ct goes 6:5.

  1. #157


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    There are other players at the table?

  2. #158


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    There are other players at the table?
    Sometimes they show up like cockroaches.

  3. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    Sometimes they show up like cockroaches.
    Haha! That reminds me of a time at Mohegan. I was playing heads up in the Earth casino. The count was rising. I had two hands out expecting a big return when the AARP club showed up! They took up all the seats next to me. Frustrated, I played a few more hands and left!

  4. #160


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    Im plan to go there soon, did they reflet some 6:5 BJ back to 3:2?

    Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

  5. #161


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    Is it possible to charge discrimination in a legal suit against the casino since they purportedly have the same game (blackjack) with completely different rules depending on the wealth of the customer (low table minimum versus high table minimum)?
    Also, do the casinos have equal access for disabled people who want to play blackjack on a 3/2 game versus a 6/5 carnival type game?
    Obviously the goal here is to have state regulation (like in Pa) where the games must be standardized.
    The other inducement to bring back 3/2 and stand on all 17's would be that the Ct casinos can't open in East Windsor.
    As an alternative, change the min/max ratio. 10-1,000 instead of 5,000. 15-1,500, 25-2,500, 50-5,000, 100-10,000.

    Summary: I would use legal and legislative action to force the games to go back to what we know as blackjack.

  6. #162
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Non-rich people are not a protected class.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #163


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    Is it possible to charge discrimination in a legal suit against the casino since they purportedly have the same game (blackjack) with completely different rules depending on the wealth of the customer (low table minimum versus high table minimum)?
    Since when has the wealth of the customer stopped a degenerate from overbetting and losing their stake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    Summary: I would use legal and legislative action to force the games to go back to what we know as blackjack.
    You are talking about Ct casinos and at least for now are both located on sovereign land protected by strong Federal laws. Good luck with anyone attempting to change that.

  8. #164


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    Is it possible to charge discrimination in a legal suit against the casino since they purportedly have the same game (blackjack) with completely different rules depending on the wealth of the customer (low table minimum versus high table minimum)?
    Also, do the casinos have equal access for disabled people who want to play blackjack on a 3/2 game versus a 6/5 carnival type game?
    Obviously the goal here is to have state regulation (like in Pa) where the games must be standardized.
    The other inducement to bring back 3/2 and stand on all 17's would be that the Ct casinos can't open in East Windsor.
    As an alternative, change the min/max ratio. 10-1,000 instead of 5,000. 15-1,500, 25-2,500, 50-5,000, 100-10,000.

    Summary: I would use legal and legislative action to force the games to go back to what we know as blackjack.
    If you’re going to do that, why stop at bringing legal action to make casinos go back to 3/2? Why not try to make them revel both their cards, rather than one. I think it’s a little unfair that we can only see one of their cards, while they get to see both of ours.

    6/5 was the best thing to happen to ploppies. 3/2 vs 6/5 is like comparing slow torture to a quick human death. Both 6/5 and 3/2 will take all the ploppies (and even perfect basic strategy players) money over the long run. The only difference is 6/5 takes it faster so the ploppies get to spend more time with their family and friends. And 6/5 also gives ploppies a better sense the game can’t be beat so they probably won’t play as much and thus won’t lose as much...all good things for the ploppies. You could make a strong augment that 6/5 was the best thing to happen to ploppies.

    The only people the 3/2 game benifits is the AP, people who extract money from a casino. Why do you think it’s in the casino’s interest to have more APs (card counters) in their casino. I’m a card counter, but I still get why the casinos doesn’t want me in their place. Remember, casinos are a business and their goal is to return as much money as they can to their shareholders.

  9. #165


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Remember, casinos are a business and their goal is to return as much money as they can to their shareholders.
    Strange as it sounds contradictory one of the largest shareholders "even though they technically do not own shares" states gaming commissions who negotiate for certain contractual binding commitments. Who also knows where their bread is buttered and act accordingly. All the while forgetting about the citizens of the corresponding states who they should be representing.

  10. #166


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    ok - so are these casinos maximizing profits?

    What was the hold percentage prior to the change and what is it now?

    For table games, internal audit looks at the hold % for a table. (also to evaluate employee theft).
    Historically (when Vegas was the only legal place in the states) blackjack was around 26% - Open a table and sell $10,000 of chips. The cash box (with receipts) would have $10,000 and the table has $2,600 of chips (or only $7,400 less than the start of the day).
    With the spread of casinos, more people play for shorter time periods and generally are better players so the hold % is in the mid teens.

    What is a typical hold % for a 3/2 game, stand on all 17's versus a 6/5 game, hit soft 17's?

    The other question is why in Pa, do they seem to dictate the rules while other states are not as strict?

  11. #167


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    ok - so are these casinos maximizing profits?

    What was the hold percentage prior to the change and what is it now?

    For table games, internal audit looks at the hold % for a table. (also to evaluate employee theft).
    Historically (when Vegas was the only legal place in the states) blackjack was around 26% - Open a table and sell $10,000 of chips. The cash box (with receipts) would have $10,000 and the table has $2,600 of chips (or only $7,400 less than the start of the day).
    With the spread of casinos, more people play for shorter time periods and generally are better players so the hold % is in the mid teens.

    What is a typical hold % for a 3/2 game, stand on all 17's versus a 6/5 game, hit soft 17's?

    The other question is why in Pa, do they seem to dictate the rules while other states are not as strict?
    Good questions. I can’t answer the specifics, but I can give you some principles of how casinos and businesses, in general, operate. As you’ve noted, casino’s objectives are like all businesses - to maximize profits, which usually means to be customer friendly (otherwise casinos won’t get business).

    Its my understanding from reading a lot of books that when Ed Thorp’s book “Beat the Dealer” came out in the 1960s casinos got scared and changed the rules, like taking away doubling and splits, to make sure blackjack couldn’t be beat. What happened? People very quickly quite playing and casino’s profits plummeted. So what did casinos do? They put the rules back to where they were and their profits mushroomed since most people don’t have the skills to beat the game.

    Where am I’m going with this? Casinos watch their profits as they bring in new games or as they move from 3:2 to 6:5. If they fall off, they will go back to 3:2. If they increase, they will stay with 6:5. As everybody knows many of the casinos on the Vegas strip are now 6:5. This appears to be working since tourist are their main clientele and tourist don’t care what they play. In fact, these games are probably good for tourist since they’re able to lose their gambling money quicker, which allows them to spend more time doing other things.

    As far as your question on why Pennsylvania has different rules than casinos in Connecticut, that’s easy. Every state can make their own laws on certain things. It’s the same reason casinos in New Jersey can’t bar APs and casinos in other states can. New Jersey passed a law where they can’t bar APs. But go try to play there and see what kind of conditions you get. They aren’t good.

    This brings us back to Mohegan Sun and their move to 6:5 with many of their games. While I don’t have any knowledge of their books, I can assure you they are watching their hold and profits with this change. If their profits increase and their customers keep coming, they will keep it. If the reverse happens, they will go back to 3:2. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple years.

  12. #168


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post

    6/5 was the best thing to happen to ploppies. 3/2 vs 6/5 is like comparing slow torture to a quick human death. You could make a strong augment that 6/5 was the best thing to happen to ploppies.

    The only people the 3/2 game benifits is the AP, people who extract money from a casino.
    More bullshit from the Dipshit.

  13. #169


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    ok - so are these casinos maximizing profits?
    No way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    What was the hold percentage prior to the change and what is it now?
    Not sure but it does not matter. Explained below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    For table games, internal audit looks at the hold % for a table. (also to evaluate employee theft).
    Historically (when Vegas was the only legal place in the states) blackjack was around 26% - Open a table and sell $10,000 of chips. The cash box (with receipts) would have $10,000 and the table has $2,600 of chips (or only $7,400 less than the start of the day).
    With the spread of casinos, more people play for shorter time periods and generally are better players so the hold % is in the mid teens.

    What is a typical hold % for a 3/2 game, stand on all 17's versus a 6/5 game, hit soft 17's?
    You cannot compare anything that goes on in Vegas casinos with what happens on private Indian Reservations lands inside the state of Connecticut. Especially when it involves loan structure. Again with strong Federal laws protecting them, Sovereign Nations hold most of the cards against their creditors who unfortunately realize it, and the best they can hope for is just to keep collecting interest payments. Casino managers know this and are more strictly concerned with only keeping their jobs by maintaining the status quo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny322 View Post
    The other question is why in Pa, do they seem to dictate the rules while other states are not as strict?
    Evidently, Pa has a Gaming Commision that actually works for the citizens, incredible.

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