Effective 8/1/2018 Card Counters Can't be Kicked Out of Louisiana Casinos

[Tarzan]

This has been evaluated 18 different ways, from all angles. It's absolutely stupid for casinos to bar counters, use countermeasures, etc., as it results in a greater loss in the overall, the big picture for them. On the whole, they are making bank on card counters, since most are underfinanced, undertrained, and/or lack the ability to walk the fine line required to be a successful AP in the long haul. If you don't believe me, simply read enough comments in gambling and blackjack related forums to understand the mentality of the general public. For those few counters that are taking a steady dollar that is relatively meaningless for the casino, there are quite a few more counters at the bottom of the bell curve losing double that. There are many aspects of game protection that are critical but counters are not on this list. I recall James Grosjean bringing up the point on how it appears to not even be about greed, and more about "the principle of the thing". I think he worded it along the lines of the hustlers being pissed off about being hustled, something like that. They are much like an insurance company that prides itself in not paying claims and is willing to pay out $10,000 in attorneys fees to avoid paying a $1000 claim, to show they are an arrogant dickhead and to prove a pointless point, with this being their objective over any concerns about their bottom line. If I owned a casino, not only would it be player-friendly/counter-friendly, but I'd also be passing out some matchplays to anyone wearing their "Blackjack Army" t-shirt and ball cap, knowing I'm ultimately going to rake them through the coals for all it's worth!Hahaha

[BoSox]

Very Intelligent post-Tarzan.

[21forme]

Most ploppies I’ve ever sat with are completely oblivious to the counter measures.

Agree. I'll never forget the time I was playing the HL room at Harrahs AC. Suit came over, put out the 5-50 sign (on a 100 min table) and told the other 2 players it only applied to me. Neither one batted an eyelash or asked what it was all about.

[ZeeBabar]

ZeeBabar,
......... You're really some kind of strange person.
I infer from what you wrote you that you actually
return to properties where you have been made
and play BJ while they half-shoe you, etc.

Flash, there are about 3 casino close to where I live. One put me on OSN and takes counter measures whenever I step into their HL room to play DD. With time on my hand, I drop in there, mostly weekdays, just get into the low limit 6 deck game with ploppies already playing. Often, they never notice me, I play 2-3 a hours conservatively, get up and leave with $50 to $150 up. At one time, a friendly pit lady recognized me, chatted while I was playing, noticed I was flat betting (soon as she recognized me, I started flat betting and left shortly after. We even talked about my countermeasures, me saying "I no longer play much because they think I am a CC while my wife is pressing me to get tested for dementia cause I forget stuff a bif".

At the other casinos too, they don't seem to act on me on main floor but HL room gets me countermeasures. I usually walk away up $100. There is no expense involved.

Oddly, despite the OSN, I still play both rated and unrated all over in LV, MS etc with no problem. In LV, I have been flatbetted but not backed off. Moreover, flatbetted in one casino and not in the next casino of the same chain.
At this time, can't travel much so I just frequent the same places, short sessions, small wins.

[BigJer]

Agree. I'll never forget the time I was playing the HL room at Harrahs AC. Suit came over, put out the 5-50 sign (on a 100 min table) and told the other 2 players it only applied to me. Neither one batted an eyelash or asked what it was all about.

They most likely think "Good! Now they won't ruin the order of the cards!"

Anyways, according to Nelson Rose, it's legal to to ban anyone as long as it's not covered by statute; race, color creed, national origin, etc. But, you can ban people who wear green hats or you don't like the way they comb their hair.

But this thing about not being able to ban counters deteriorates the games.

[BoSox]

At one time, a friendly pit lady recognized me, chatted while I was playing, noticed I was flat betting (soon as she recognized me, I started flat betting and left shortly after. We even talked about my countermeasures, me saying "I no longer play much because they think I am a CC while my wife is pressing me to get tested for dementia cause I forget stuff a bif".

Did the friendly pit lady like your fake toupe and mustache?

[21forme]

But this thing about not being able to ban counters deteriorates the games.

Yeah, that's why the Vegas games are so good

[ZenMaster_Flash]

My colleague TARZAN's post #14 is laudable.

Tarzan correctly points out, or at least implies, that the modal Card Counter
is likely to break even or win or lose some rather insignificant sum. I agree.

Here is a good example of why they feel that they must bar Card Counters,
but are very wrong, as the players that I am referencing are a moving target.

If these fellows had continued playing without the benefit of my mentorship,
their high I.Q., and Hi-Opt II/ASC, they probably would have quit playing long
ago.

A few months ago I met with these two young men who have a noble goal.
They had both graduated from College and had been accepted to a good
Eastern Medical School. They begin in Sept. and they needed to find a great
deal of money to pay off their undergraduate Student Loans.

Their training was done largely by email and telephone. There was no need
for Video Conferencing. We met up at a casino and spent time face-to-face
polishing their game.

Initially, they read a few of my posts and noted that I was willing to mentor
serious Card Counters. I found their goal of a combined win of $150,000 a bit
lofty, but do'able. I trained them in Hi-Opt II. No surprise there. They had an
initial bankroll that was barely sufficient for $25 games. As profits accrued, they
doubled their bet spread to $50-$600.

Before finding me they had played Hi-Lo but after floating around the break-even
point for months they grew tired of spending an incredible amount of time with
virtually no profit to show for their efforts.

As of last week they had raised their bank to >$100,000. They have months to go!

Go Med Students Go! Go Med Students Go!

[Bigdaddy]

I view this law change as a positive development.

I realize that this could lead to game deterioration. But I would much rather play the “cat and mouse” game where the cat is forced to play nice - knowing that I won’t get my head ripped off.

[21forme]

Before finding me they had played Hi-Lo but after floating around the break-even
point for months they grew tired of spending an incredible amount of time with
virtually no profit to show for their efforts.

I trained them in Hi-Opt II. No surprise there. They had an
initial bankroll that was barely sufficient for $25 games. As profits accrued, they
doubled their bet spread to $50-$600.

For the most part, I stay out of these count debates (another thread derailed into a count debate!) as I have a lot of respect for Flash and have known him personally for many years. However, this is complete BS. The results he mentions above are simply due to the variance of the game. For any newbies reading this, don't drink the higher-level count Koolaid.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

I have solid respect for 21forme, but there is one issue that we disagree on.

Of course, 2 peeps playing full-time for 6 months will have results that are

partially the result of good variance. The greater the sample size the less it

is a matter of variance. They played for a few months and won almost nothing

before learning to use Hi-Opt II and winning $100,000 in four months. I did not

note how many hours were involved, but playing high stakes, $100,000 I am sure

is well within 1 standard deviation playing daily while "crisscrossing the country."

There is no final answer as to how much "luck" (good variance) was involved.

My respect for 21forme cannot be sullied by one disagreement. He is a very bright fellow.

I urge all readers to read something artfully written at:

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-...-ways-to-argue

Thank me later.

[BoSox]

I havesolid respect for 21forme, but there is one issue that we disagree on.

Of course, 2 peeps playing full-time for 6 months will have results that are

partially the result of good variance.

The problem is that in all of your training success stories, you imply something else entirely, without mentioning the above quote unless someone else called you on it. The more you inflate your teaching skills the less you are to be believed.

[BoSox]

He directs people who otherwise would play poor penetration, shoe games with hi lo

That does not sound quite right. If players are playing poor pen shoe games they may not be the ideal students for ZMF as he has stated above, to quote:

"Initially, they read a few of my posts and noted that I was willing to mentor
serious Card Counters."

I suppose it depends on how ZMF defines serious. From reading this board it appears he gives everyone a chance if they want it. He even advertises.

There is a huge difference between amateur and professional play.

I believe most pro's play shoe games, those which are deeply cut with even better rules.