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Thread: SCORE with RoR Considered

  1. #1


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    c-SCORE with RoR Considered

    c-SCORE and RoR are great stats for comparing games. But has anyone come up with a way to compare games that combines the two stats?

    I've been playing around with incorporating CE/WR and SCORE together with some maybe-meaningful results, but thought I'd see if someone has a better solution.

    This question comes from trying to compare two games with similar c-SCORES but different RoR and Win Rates like game 1 and 2 below. I wonder if theres a way to look at these two games and understand which one is a "better" game with a single number instead of using two stats : cSCORE and RoR.

    game1243.jpg
    Last edited by MercySakesAlive; 04-23-2018 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #2


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    Why?

    Score is the best way to compare games by removing all the other variables. Score already told you which of the two games is better.

    Your chart says Score but your post says c-SCORES, which do your mean or do you not understand the difference?

    C-Score is good for doing the same thing with your bankroll and your playing styles.

    What information do you think you are missing to make a game evaluation?
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  3. #3


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    i choose game 2 , risk is twice as low compare to game 1 with only a slight decrease in WR . A ROR of 2%is not low enough for me , .1 % to .2 % so i have minimal stress and I don't need to resize .i am not neither a "salamander" or a human . I am born a" monkey ".

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by MercySakesAlive View Post
    SCORE and RoR are great stats for comparing games. But has anyone come up with a way to compare games that combines the two stats?

    I've been playing around with incorporating CE/WR and SCORE together with some maybe-meaningful results, but thought I'd see if someone has a better solution.

    This question comes from trying to compare two games with similar c-SCORES but different RoR and Win Rates like game 1 and 2 below. I would like to be able to look at these two games and understand which one is a "better" game.

    Attachment 3054
    You still don't understand the concept. Game 2 is better, because SCORE says so. Period. What you do after that, to screw around with the optimal bet ramp, bankroll, ROR, etc., has nothing whatsoever to do with which game is preferable. You're asking the wrong questions.

    Don

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Why?

    Score is the best way to compare games by removing all the other variables. Score already told you which of the two games is better.

    Your chart says Score but your post says c-SCORES, which do your mean or do you not understand the difference?

    C-Score is good for doing the same thing with your bankroll and your playing styles.

    What information do you think you are missing to make a game evaluation?
    Thanks. I think I meant c-SCORE so I edited my post to read c-SCORE.

    My understanding is SCORE is (100 x WR / SD)^2 with RoR at 13.5% and c-SCORE is the same formula with an un-specified RoR.

    When two games have different RoR's and c-SCORES, it seems to me that c-SCORE is not the only factor to consider when comparing games.
    Last edited by MercySakesAlive; 04-23-2018 at 04:53 PM.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    You still don't understand the concept. Game 2 is better, because SCORE says so. Period. What you do after that, to screw around with the optimal bet ramp, bankroll, ROR, etc., has nothing whatsoever to do with which game is preferable. You're asking the wrong questions.

    Don
    I must still be confused about the difference between SCORE and c-SCORE. I thought that once you take the 13.5% RoR constraint off of your comparisons that you could no longer consider it a pure SCORE comparison. Instead it would be a c-SCORE comparison. But you said that CVCX only gives SCORE and not c-SCORE. So yeah, its confusing because the CVCX instruction literature calls the feature c-SCORE, the CVCX results page calls it plain SCORE, you're telling me the CVCX results are always SCORE, and BJA3 tells me a SCORE without a 13.5% ROR (like 2-5%, which is what I'm working with) should be called c-SCORE. So yeah, I'm confused. Thanks for any help.
    Last edited by MercySakesAlive; 04-23-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7


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    So , Don my way of looking at the game is also wrong? i am looking at all the variables

  8. #8


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    It would be refreshing if those who are confused would reread the SCORE chapter, followed by More on SCORE. I can't keep rehashing the same things over and over again.

    If you stray from the SCORE parameters, you're just comparing apples to oranges. SCORE is meant to compare apples to apples. In the investment world, the Sharpe ratio was created to compare the attractiveness of various investments. It divides the excess return over T-Bills by the standard deviation (volatility) of the investment. Thus, it is a risk-adjusted return. The higher ratio is the "better" investment. Your original post lacks the s.d. of each game. I could back it out from the ROR, but I'm not in the mood to do that. Divide each win rate by the s.d. of each game. In theory, the higher ratio is the "better" game.

    Don

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by MercySakesAlive View Post
    My understanding is SCORE is (100 x WR / SD)^2 with RoR at 13.5% and c-SCORE is the same formula with an un-specified RoR.
    Yes, but SCORE uses a fixed environment of a $10,000 bankroll with optimal betting to insure its apples to apples comparisons.

    When you change your parameters of bankroll and/or bet ramp then you can use the formula to determine a C-Score.

    There is a chapter in BJAIII that makes all of this very clear including the use of the two different terms.

    Since you seem to be running in circles, READ IT, and then ask your questions.

    It appears you are trying to evaluate a game based on its risk. I believe CE serves as a risk adjusted EV and may help you understand. But read the chapter.
    Last edited by Stealth; 04-23-2018 at 08:58 PM.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  10. #10


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    Cool, I'll read it again.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    It would be refreshing if those who are confused would reread the SCORE chapter, followed by More on SCORE. I can't keep rehashing the same things over and over again.
    Don, could you check my page (draft, in French) please ?
    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/score

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Philippe B View Post
    Don, could you check my page (draft, in French) please ?
    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/score
    Really very beautifully done. Bravo. Beau travail. One edit: In Desirability Indice, the word "indice" doesn't exist in English. It is the French word (singular) for "index" and also exists in English, but only in the plural "indices." So, while one may say "two indices," in English, one may not say "one indice."

    A part cela, c'est vraiment tres bien fait et explique. Je vous en felicite.

    Don

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the compliments and the clear English grammar lesson. I corrected.

    Do you followed KOx6 link ?
    Am I the first to suggest an imaginary clock ?
    Or do you have a reference?

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