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Thread: A counting trick

  1. #1
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    A counting trick

    A counting trick which I have never seen but I have been applying for a long time : to think of the count as a clock.
    An earlier reference ?

    [Edit] Link removed. The traduction below is no longer accurate.
    Last edited by Phoebe; 05-17-2018 at 02:23 AM.

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    What is the benefit of this? I'm looking forward to your translation.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Philippe B;247467]A counting trick which I have never seen but I have been applying for a long time and have formalized in
    http://pokermenteur.free.fr/kox6
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-17-2018 at 06:14 PM.

  4. #4


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    Introduction

    The KOx6 system is based on the KO system described in the book " Knock-Out Blackjack " by Olaf Vancura and Ken Fuchs.
    Its originality is to use a mental representation of the account on an imaginary clock.
    The CRIs and indices are shifted and, for the main ones, multiples of 6 (hence the name of the system) to facilitate the memorization.
    The account

    The value of the cards is that of the KO.
    You visualize the count as a needle moving forward or backward on a clock.

    With 8 games the IRC is -24 and we start at 0:00 of the day
    with 6 games the IRC is -16 and we start at 8:00 of the day

    when the account reaches 24:00, it returns to 0:00 and the day is incremented .
    When it becomes negative, it goes from -1:00 to 23:00 and the day is decremented.

    The risk of being "wrong by day" is minimal because you know if you are in a zone:

    • neutral of the day D (classic account between -24 and 0) where the bet is minimal.
    • active day D + 1 (between 0 and +24) where you will vary your bets.
    • unfavorable day D-1 (between -48 and -24) where you want to leave.

    Accounts lower than -48 or greater than +24 are extremely rare.

    Advantages, the account always remains positive, between 0 and 24 and the memorization is facilitated by the visual side.
    Avoid interference with, for example, the announcement of the total hands by the dealer.
    But do not answer too quickly if by chance we ask you the time :-)
    The strategy of putting

    The betting ramp is that of the normal KO taking into account the offset of the IRC.
    With the IRCs given above, it is generally at D + 1 between 0:00 and 6:00

    To define your personal ramp, you can make your own simulations or import them into CVCX:
    Without ENHCwith DAS, 6 or 8 games, S17 or H17, Abandon or not.
    With ENHC with DAS, 6 games, S17, Abandon or not and, as is the custom in France, with 5 cards burned instead of one.

    The game strategy

    The insurance is taken at 6:00 of the day D + 1
    The indices are divided into 4 groups.

    1) at 6 pm of the day

    • Stay 16 vs 10
    • Abandon 16 vs 9
    • Abandon 15 vs 10

    2) at 0:00 of the day D + 1

    • Doubling A8 vs 6 (18h00 with H17)
    • Doubling A8 vs 5
    • Double A7 vs 2 (18h00 with H17)
    • Doubling A6 vs 2
    • Double 11 vs As (18h00 with H17)
    • Doubling 9 vs 2
    • Stay 12 vs 3
    • Stay A7 vs As
    • Abandon 88

    3) at 6:00 of the day D + 1

    • Stay 15 vs 10
    • Stay 12 vs 2
    • Doubling 10 vs 10
    • Doubling 10 vs As
    • Doubling 9 vs 7
    • Doubling 8 vs 5
    • Abandon 15 vs 9
    • Abandon 15 vs. Ace (Always give up with H17)
    • Abandon 14 vs 10


    4) at 12 noon of the day D + 1

    • Share XX vs 5
    • Share XX vs 6
    • Share 99 vs 7

    Wonging out

    The hours, depending on the progress in the hoof, are different between 6 and 8 games but still multiples of 5
    As in the KO system, you leave the game when it is at least, the initial day,

    After in 6 games in 8 games
    2 games 10:00 0:00
    3 games 3:00 p.m. 5:00
    4 games 8:00 p.m. 10:00
    5 games 3:00 p.m.


  5. #5


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    Wow - Whatever floats your boat....

    Everybody has different ways of using KO and applying the running count to the game. IMO. the "clock system" described above is unnecessarily arcane.

    I use KO for 6 and 8 deck games and I apply true-counting principles to it. For instance, I always start my running count at +10 to avoid negative numbers. In a 6-deck game, I'm looking for the TC of +2 to begin my ramp - that means RC of +24 after one deck, +26 after two decks, +28 after three decks, etc. TC +4 is always at RC of +34 (pivot point). So it's not that hard to figure out all the TCs in between and beyond. Again, I understand that everybody's mind works differently on this. I would only challenge you to understand the true-counting principles behind KO and then go from there. CVData can provide proper indexes for true-counted KO.

  6. #6


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    This is cool. It is easier to remember things if you can attach a visual to them so this may keep your counting on track. I got a little lost on how the times correlated to certain plays. For a 6 deck shoe what do these "times" correlate to with your IRC at -16?
    1) at 6 pm of the day

    2) at 0:00 of the day D + 1
    3) at 6:00 of the day D + 1
    4) at 12 noon of the day D + 1
    Also what are your 6 deck wong out points?


  7. #7


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    Like BigDaddy said, whatever floats your boat, but damn...

  8. #8


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    Can't we just count the cards and divide by decks remaining? The amount of gymnastics people are doing is kind of astounding.

  9. #9


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    Great you've found a method that works for you but, I think someone else said it was arcane, I'd call it bonkers. At least for me. If you have trouble in counting 1,2,3 I don't think blackjack is your game...

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