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Thread: Match play deviations

  1. #1


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    Match play deviations

    I was using some match plays the other day and was dealt 8,8 vs 6

    It was a 50 dollar match play.

    In the past some dealers when splitting would let me split for the full amount or just the amount of my wager in chips (ie in this case let me split for 50 or 100) so with defensive splits I would split for less but with most splits I would split for the full amount.

    Other dealers would make me split for everything, in this case 100.
    This dealer told me I had to split for the full amount if I wanted to split.

    So i decided not to split and surrendered (they gave me back $37.50 and took the match play)

    Was this the right move? My thinking was i effectively am betting 75 (rounding off and counting the value of the match play as half of 50 ) but would have to put up another 100 to split making it the wrong decision.

  2. #2


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    If you decided not to split, stay is a better play.

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    If I am understanding this correctly you had a $100 bet of which $50 was a match-play correct?
    I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't split for the full amount. Usually 8/8 is a defensive split. But I thought 8 versus 6 was a positive EV hand? Because of the match play, you would be "splitting for more", I get that. I don't understand why that is a bad thing in the situation though.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    No, that was not the right move. You should have split and put whatever you could and/or needed to, according to this weeks flavor of dealer. 8vs6 is a positive expectation hand. In a positive count and the dealer tells me put the full amount and a doubling situation arises? I have no clue why you would have surrendered it. What prompted the decision to surrender, was it just some sort of snap judgment after indecisiveness?
    Last edited by Tarzan; 04-17-2018 at 08:25 AM.

  5. #5


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    You should never surrender if your forfeit your match play and half your bet. Here you should have just split for the full amount. But why did u get $37.50 back?

  6. #6


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    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/...ouponsbjfo.pdf

    has the strategy deviations for match play and other coupons. This should be in a sticky somewhere. Questions about how to play coupons come up frequently.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by RCJH View Post
    If I am understanding this correctly you had a $100 bet of which $50 was a match-play correct?
    I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't split for the full amount. Usually 8/8 is a defensive split. But I thought 8 versus 6 was a positive EV hand? Because of the match play, you would be "splitting for more", I get that. I don't understand why that is a bad thing in the situation though.
    sorry - that was a typo. it was 8,8 vs 10 which is why I said it was a negative expectation split.
    Against a 6 i would have split for sure.i got $37.50 back I guess because they viewed the value of the match play at 25 (which makes sense).

    Against the 10 did i make the right move?

    Once again sorry for any confusion.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/...ouponsbjfo.pdf

    has the strategy deviations for match play and other coupons. This should be in a sticky somewhere. Questions about how to play coupons come up frequently.
    thank you.

  9. #9


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    The answer is in Grosjean's article. As Meistro said, if you give up half of your live money and the coupon, then you never surrender. 8,8 vs T is a hit in this situation. If you lose half of your live money but get to keep the coupon, then you surrender 8,8 vs T.

    You said that they took the coupon when you surrendered, however, you also said that they gave you back $37.50 and not $25. That situation is not covered in the article. Can you explain why they gave you back $37.50?

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    The answer is in Grosjean's article. As Meistro said, if you give up half of your live money and the coupon, then you never surrender. 8,8 vs T is a hit in this situation. If you lose half of your live money but get to keep the coupon, then you surrender 8,8 vs T.

    You said that they took the coupon when you surrendered, however, you also said that they gave you back $37.50 and not $25. That situation is not covered in the article. Can you explain why they gave you back $37.50?
    My bet was 50 and the match play was 50.
    So half of the 50 dollar bet and then half of the value of the match play (12.50)
    Although from people questioning this, it sounds like i got screwed.

  11. #11


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    you are lucky to get money for the match play.. i usually dont get anything if i surrender a match play.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by tomf23 View Post
    My bet was 50 and the match play was 50.
    So half of the 50 dollar bet and then half of the value of the match play (12.50)
    Although from people questioning this, it sounds like i got screwed.
    Actually, you did better than the best case surrender scenario (when they take the coupon), which is to only retain one half of your live money, or $25.

    If this is the actual house procedure, and wasn't simply a mis-pay, there may be some hands for which it is correct to surrender, even though they take the coupon.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    Actually, you did better than the best case surrender scenario (when they take the coupon), which is to only retain one half of your live money, or $25.

    If this is the actual house procedure, and wasn't simply a mis-pay, there may be some hands for which it is correct to surrender, even though they take the coupon.
    yes this is definitely better than them taking the coupon entirely. if they were going to take take the whole thing i never would have surrendered.

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