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Thread: SP21/Pontoon indices for doubling A,7-A,9?

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    Because a level 3 count provides more advantage in SP21/Pontoon than it does in traditional BJ by a good margin. If you add a bunch of indices on top of it, each count increment can give you a sizeable advantage. The game swings like a mofo because of its high variance, but there's good money to be made nonetheless.
    Curious as to why a L3 point count "provides more advantage" in Sp21? What analysis have you done to suggest that going above L2 is better? Is it better for betting or playing? Both?

    What warrants playing over L2?
    Last edited by lij45o6; 03-16-2018 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #28
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    The betting EoR of the cards is such that lower level counts don't correlate well.
    Betting EoR's for S17 SP21:
    2: +0.0369
    3: +0.0482
    4: +0.0708
    5: +0.0885
    6: +0.0465
    7: +0.0040
    8: -0.0270
    9: -0.0173
    T: -0.0481
    A: -0.1227

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    The betting EoR of the cards is such that lower level counts don't correlate well.
    Got it. However; how does this pan out for playing? I would assume that the EOR for each hand is unique as it is in standard 21. Would L3 offer better/more advantageous index departures? Or would one need to employ multi-parametric counting to correct for low playing correlation(s)? Would a L3 count offer better playing strategy over an L2 count and if so, how much? If not, would an L1/2/3 coupled with a side-count offer better results as a multi-parametric system?

  4. #30


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    The betting EoR of the cards is such that lower level counts don't correlate well.
    Betting EoR's for S17 SP21:
    2: +0.0369
    3: +0.0482
    4: +0.0708
    5: +0.0885
    6: +0.0465
    7: +0.0040
    8: -0.0270
    9: -0.0173
    T: -0.0481
    A: -0.1227
    Would an L2 count be the bare minimum for Sp21 to really consider attacking this game?

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    Would an L2 count be the bare minimum for Sp21 to really consider attacking this game?
    In my opinion, yes. Many try with a level 1 count but they don't last. Either get eaten by the swings or get caught by the catchers because they are way to obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    However; how does this pan out for playing?
    That is why you need an ace neutral count. Playing is more important than betting in SP21.
    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    I would assume that the EOR for each hand is unique as it is in standard 21.
    What you need to realize is each number of cards or any 2 card part of a hand of 678 or 777 is a different matchup for the same hand total and has its own index.
    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    Would L3 offer better/more advantageous index departures?
    I don't think so but creatively using counting can add a lot to your arsenal. Your playing count or betting count doesn't have to mimic what you do in BJ. When you change how you use info gathered to get many possibilities it opens a lot of new avenues for gain.

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    In my opinion, yes. Many try with a level 1 count but they don't last. Either get eaten by the swings or get caught by the catchers because they are way to obvious. Playing is more important than betting in SP21.
    Interesting.
    What you need to realize is each number of cards or any 2 card part of a hand of 678 or 777 is a different match-up for the same hand total and has its own index.
    I understand that. I was wondering how using a L2/L3 point count offers a better correlation for (playing) and how this would affect index departures. I get the mechanics of indices. From reading ToBJ, my understainding is that going over L2 is a wasted effort as you do not gain any extra advantage from playing decisions.

    I don't think so but creatively using counting can add a lot to your arsenal. Your playing count or betting count doesn't have to mimic what you do in BJ. When you change how you use info gathered to get many possibilities it opens a lot of new avenues for gain.
    So, would you agree that multi-paramter systems would be greatly suited for Sp21?

  7. #33
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    So, would you agree that multi-paramter systems would be greatly suited for Sp21?
    That is a step in the right direction. Getting more creative with extra information gathered than traditional multi parameter counting is more desirable.

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