SP21/Pontoon indices for doubling A,7-A,9?

[Three]

There's 40 multi-card/bonus deviations in Pontoon basic strategy.

There are multicard deviations for each matchup. Some have 3 card indices different than the 2 card index. They all have a 4 card index, a 5 card index and a 6 or more card index. Some matchups have 678 and 777 bonus draw indices for 2 card hands for mixed, suited, and spaded hands. The adjustment for each type of bonus draw varies by hand matchup. In other words general adjustments to apply to any hand total are very weak. To put it in a way that takes the increased betting advantage unique to my system out of the equation, flat betting with general adjustments for bonus draws with the playing count I use moved the HE by .06 percentage points, while comprehensive indices for my playing count for each matchup for all possible types of potential bonus draws the HE was moved by .23 percentage points for flat betting.

[Bushie]

There are multicard deviations for each matchup. Some have 3 card indices different than the 2 card index. They all have a 4 card index, a 5 card index and a 6 or more card index. Some matchups have 678 and 777 bonus draw indices for 2 card hands for mixed, suited, and spaded hands. The adjustment for each type of bonus draw varies by hand matchup. In other words general adjustments to apply to any hand total are very weak. To put it in a way that takes the increased betting advantage unique to my system out of the equation, flat betting with general adjustments for bonus draws with the playing count I use moved the HE by .06 percentage points, while comprehensive indices for my playing count for each matchup for all possible types of potential bonus draws the HE was moved by .23 percentage points for flat betting.

It's like two broken records with their volume turned right up lol

I'm fully aware of the multi-card deviations. They are a part of basic strategy.

Yes I know about the possibility of gleaning an advantage using just flat-betting and a count with strong PE. It's for peanuts though, considering in this case the HE is 0.42%.

[Freightman]

It's like two broken records with their volume turned right up lol

I'm fully aware of the multi-card deviations. They are a part of basic strategy.

Yes I know about the possibility of gleaning an advantage using just flat-betting and a count with strong PE. It's for peanuts though, considering in this case the HE is 0.42%.

As I said
https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/sl...e=sledgehammer

[Bushie]

As I said
https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/sl...e=sledgehammer

More like a scalpel.

I'm using a custom level 3 ace neutral count with 50+ indices and a 1-12 spread.

A sledgehammer approach would be using Hi-Lo and spreading 1-24.

[Three]

It's like two broken records with their volume turned right up lol

I'm fully aware of the multi-card deviations. They are a part of basic strategy.

Yes I know about the possibility of gleaning an advantage using just flat-betting and a count with strong PE. It's for peanuts though, considering in this case the HE is 0.42%.

LoL

You totally missed the point. Basic strategy bonus deviations move the HE by nothing because the HE assumes you are playing with basic strategy. So you say my strategy already figures proper bonus play because for me plat betting has a HE of .42%. You could play to a HE of 0.19% with a better playing strategy. I am not talking about learning a new count. I am talking about learning the indices for the game you play. SP21/pontoon is mostly about playing strategy. Betting strategies are all very inaccurate despite what BC may imply. In the same TC that you may bet at the middle of your ramp the advantage range will be great. About one third of the time you will be severely under betting and most of the rest of the time you will be over betting some. Very rarely are you betting the right amount for the current deck composition. You rely on strong index play to both generate a half a true count higher advantage for the same deck composition and win a higher percentage of hands. But mostly to win more by getting more bonus payouts. The BJ bonus is not the big bonus in these games. The 5 card bonus generates most of the bonus money you make. BJ is a minor bonus coming in at well less than half the 5 card bonus. Your attitude is like deciding to play 6:5 BJ because you don't want the extra boys payout.

[lij45o6]

More like a scalpel.

I'm using a custom level 3 ace neutral count with 50+ indices and a 1-12 spread.

A sledgehammer approach would be using Hi-Lo and spreading 1-24.

Is this for S17 or the H17 DDD rule, aka the "West Coast" rule? And why Level 3? Just curious...

[Three]

More like a scalpel.

I'm using a custom level 3 ace neutral count with 50+ indices and a 1-12 spread.

A sledgehammer approach would be using Hi-Lo and spreading 1-24.

That is a pitiful few indices for this game. 400 indices gets you all the bonuses. This isn't BJ. Complexity is mandatory and that especially applies to index play. For example 14v2 has 9 indices for the matchup. 50 indices covers like 9 matchups.

[Freightman]

More like a scalpel.

I'm using a custom level 3 ace neutral count with 50+ indices and a 1-12 spread.

A sledgehammer approach would be using Hi-Lo and spreading 1-24.

The reference was in regards to your detractors vs count system. In any event, good luck to you

[Bushie]

Is this for S17 or the H17 DDD rule, aka the "West Coast" rule? And why Level 3? Just curious...

Australian Pontoon. Similiar to SP21. The gist of its rules are on the topical WoO article.

Because a level 3 count provides more advantage in SP21/Pontoon than it does in traditional BJ by a good margin. If you add a bunch of indices on top of it, each count increment can give you a sizeable advantage. The game swings like a mofo because of its high variance, but there's good money to be made nonetheless.

[Bushie]

That is a pitiful few indices for this game. 400 indices gets you all the bonuses. This isn't BJ. Complexity is mandatory and that especially applies to index play. For example 14v2 has 9 indices for the matchup. 50 indices covers like 9 matchups.

Complexity /=/ Optimal.

I could spend hours learning hundreds of uncommon indices for a 0.05% gain or so, or I could learn the most common and most beneficial indices and get started grinding EV out of the game. Less capacity for error too.

It sounds like you're saying that I need to learn hundreds of indices to have any chance whatsoever. That's not actually the case.

[Bushie]

The reference was in regards to your detractors vs count system. In any event, good luck to you

Oh right haha. Thanks mate.

[Three]

I could spend hours learning hundreds of uncommon indices for a 0.05% gain or so, or I could learn the most common and most beneficial indices and get started grinding EV out of the game. Less capacity for error too.

You are thinking BJ not pontoon. Just flat betting the extra indices are worth 0.23%. With ramping they are worth a lot more. Complete index play can double your EV over simple index play. It isn't a 0.05% gain. It was a 108% gain for my count. The beauty is it didn't affect SD by much so it almost tripled c-SCORE. Just run the sims. You'll see. It ain't small potatoes.

[Three]

Oh right haha. Thanks mate.

All I have tried to do is show you the folly of to few indices. To get the most out of those multi-card bonuses you have to play for them. I haven't said a thing about you needing to change counts. I have no reason to doubt that your count is strong. You do realize with a stronger playing strategy you gain EV with every deviation. Not just when it changes your decision. EV is the difference in EV between BS and the EV of the deviation. If you have a better correlated decision process you gain more EV every time you make the deviation. Most decisions made will be a bonus draw decisions.