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Thread: Mistakes made

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Regarding your last sentence - yes - you need to grow a set.
    I suspect, under current conditions, you do not consider Zee a candidate for FBM ASC.

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by kuma View Post
    I suspect, under current conditions, you do not consider Zee a candidate for FBM ASC.
    Some of you seem to jump to conclusions. I do know the right plays to make. I just admitted that I did not always make the right plays because of a variety of factors. These are issues of culture and psrsonality. It's what has been my weakness. I tend to settle for harmony , getting along with others at the table and deferring to big bettors. Thus, I may sometimes opt to settle for lesser EV.

    If you resident pros are determined to label me a ploppy of see me as a poor player, just move on.

  3. #16


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    I almost rated the OP as helpful. Helpful as an example of idiocy.

  4. #17


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    Seems like few read the OP properly when it comes to me.

    First, I was not asking what the correct play was. I was admitting that I had not made the correct play.

    Second, I was asking if and when others refrained from making the correct play and why.

    Third, now much might not making the correct play be costing us.

    Does everyone always make the correct play (obviously many do not when splitting 10's)?

    Are there other times of occasions when you did not do what the play called for?

    As usual, I expected a few who circle around these forums to see my name and take out their hostilities.

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Seems like few read the OP properly when it comes to me.

    First, I was not asking what the correct play was. I was admitting that I had not made the correct play.
    Noticed.

    Second, I was asking if and when others refrained from making the correct play and why.
    When I get 3 hours of sleep. Otherwise, I consciously refrain from deviating from proper play.

    Third, now much might not making the correct play be costing us.
    A lot. You should have CV software, right? Otherwise, BJA, the latest edition.

    Does everyone always make the correct play (obviously many do not when splitting 10's)?
    I once stood a 4-card hard 17 vs dealer Ace in Sp21. Dealer drew my 4.

    Are there other times of occasions when you did not do what the play called for?
    Excluding indices; I rarely try to.

    As usual, I expected a few who circle around these forums to see my name and take out their hostilities.
    Maybe take a break from the forum, read up on High-Low a little more, practice your count and deck estimation, practice basic strategy and index strategy for your point-count system, run some sims, read some books (Wong, Griffin, Schlesinger, etc.)

    Posting on the forum is not going to get you off OSN, it is not going to make you the best High-Low player out there, and it certainly won't garnish you any respect when you post about flagrant errors in your strategy.

    Winning? Practice. Losing? Practice. Practice until you are so sick of thinking of counting you get nauseous.

  6. #19


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    Zee posted some info on plays/strategy that does come up often. I believe he knows the right decision on every one of them, but is looking for reassurance that he should or not should have made those decisions. You know the plays and indices.....don't trust the gut, you don't get many opportunities to get more money on the table. When the opportunity comes up and the count dictates it as the right decision, do it!! Funny how you remember the big loses, but not so much the wins.

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses;244578o
    1.) Norm's prodcuts 2.) Norm's products 3.) Norm's products.
    I've been meaning to ask this for ages; do Norm's products support indice generation for custom counts in SP21/Pontoon?

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    I've been meaning to ask this for ages; do Norm's products support indice generation for custom counts in SP21/Pontoon?
    For two card totals only, if I am not mistaken. So, you will get the 2-card indices for Sp21. Norm may have changed that. I will let him set the record straight.

  9. #22
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    +1
    dogman is correct.

    Two Card Play is not sufficient to beat Span21 or Pontoon.

    As Three has pointed out, ad lib, in these
    games Playing Efficiency is extremely important.

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    +1
    dogman is correct.

    Two Card Play is not sufficient to beat Span21 or Pontoon.

    As Three has pointed out, ad lib, in these
    games Playing Efficiency is extremely important.
    Again, multi-card composition deviations ARE part of basic strategy in Pontoon, and are accounted for.

    It only gets complex when the count calls for deviations from those BS deviations.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    Again, multi-card composition deviations are part of basic strategy in Pontoon, and are accounted for.

    It only gets complex when the count calls for deviations from those BS deviations.
    Basic Strategy does NOT include B.S. beyond the original 2 card hands. e.g.Hard 17 vs. Ace. If it is a 3 card 17 I can no longer surrender the hand. Basic Strategy dictates precisely what? If the count is high enough I will stand. If the count is low enough I will hit. If the 3 card 17 is the result of a doubled hand, the Basic Strategist will "rescue" against a high card. What about a 4 card Hard17 where a possible bonus hand looms large. What if that 17 is comprised of 5 or more cards and the dealer has flipped up a high card?


    Software needs to be able to differentiate between a 3 card hand and a 4 (or more)
    card hand, but let's not make the error of
    failing to differentiate
    the suited, unsuited,
    and spaded hands.

    In my vast experience with Spanish21 I find that the above
    "only" does not apply. The implication easily drawn, that Basic Strategy is sufficient to beat the game, is profoundly incorrect.
    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 03-17-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    " ... her other count"
    Do you actually know anything substantive about her "other count?"
    Her untimely death ended the planned follow-up text.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    Basic Strategy does NOT include B.S. beyond the original 2 card hands. e.g.Hard 17 vs. Ace. If it is a 3 card 17 I can no longer surrender the hand. Basic Strategy dictates precisely what? If the count is high enough I will stand. If the count is low enough I will hit. If the 3 card 17 is the result of a doubled hand, the Basic Strategist will "rescue" against a high card. What about a 4 card Hard17 where a possible bonus hand looms large. What if that 17 is comprised of 5 or more cards and the dealer has flipped up a high card?


    Software needs to be able to differentiate between a 3 card hand and a 4 (or more)
    card hand, but let's not make the error of
    failing to differentiate
    the suited, unsuited,
    and spaded hands.

    In my vast experience with Spanish21 I find that the above
    "only" does not apply. The implication easily drawn, that Basic Strategy is sufficient to beat the game, is profoundly incorrect.
    It does actually. There's S4, S5, S6, D3, D4, D5, P$ (suited 7s), hit if any 6-7-8 is possible, hit if suited or spaded 6-7-8 ad hit if spaded 6-7-8 is possible and combinations of the above for a total of 46 basic strategy "deviations". Then you can add further indices like 16v10, 15v10, 14v3, 14v2, 9v5 etc etc for (what I use) about 60 or so indices.

    Obviously BS doesn't alone beat the game. I never said that. What does is a strong count, ramping and using the most common and beneficial indices. Is it optimal? No. Does it glean an advantage? Absolutely.

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