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Thread: Mistakes made

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    The "deviations" are *not* deviations! This should be noted. If I have a hard 11 vs dealer 8, basic strategy says to double for hand size 2-3 cards and hit for +4 cards. Those are not deviations, those *are* the basic strategy. Now, if the count changes, then the strategy changes. Those departures from the basic strategy chart (based on the count only) are the 'deviations', not the actual suggested plays given for the basic strategist.
    Thats what I've been saying. Theres 46 basic strategy "deviations" that are included in determining the HE when using correct play. Not using these "deviations" when determining the HE will give you an incorrect HE that will be significantly higher.

    In essence, a strong count, a decent ramp and (I guess what is a custom iL18 for my count) indices IS advantageous. I've factored for these basic strategy "deviations" into this when determining HE.

    Understood?

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    " ...there remains a system that allows us to break into _HE (the house has a disadvantage off the top) flat betting with a full raft of indices. At least, from what I have read from Walker.
    Is it a typo, or did you mean to state that flat betting with many indices yield's a player advantage. Perhaps you can give me the page number from Kat's book.

  3. #29
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    Maybe this is a linguistic problem.

    The House has an ADVANTAGE, not a disadvantage, "off the top"

    You are referencing something that exists only in the future
    and stating it as fact. I am citing:

    "There is a Sp21 counting system that has yet to be developed"


    What am I missing here? I am trying to comprehend what you have said.

    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 03-20-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  4. #30


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    If the count is high enough I will stand. If the count is low enough I will hit. If the 3 card 17 is the result of a doubled hand, the Basic Strategist will "rescue" against a high card.
    I don't play much SP21 but I thought you were only supposed to double down rescue with stiffs, aside from the sole exception of 17 v A.

  5. #31


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    Rescue with a stiff vs 8, 9, T A. Rescue with 17 vs A.

  6. #32


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    Amazing how this thread I started about my mistakes playing standard BJ has gone so many directions and ended up with SP21, a game I never even attempted to play.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    I don't play much SP21 but I thought you were only supposed to double down rescue with stiffs, aside from the sole exception of 17 v A.
    The DDR rule(s) for Sp21 dictate surrendering a doubled 17 vs A.

    https://wizardofodds.com/games/spanish-21/

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    "The DDR rule(s) for Sp21 dictate surrendering a doubled 17 vs A."
    Yes, the Basic Strategy dictates just that.
    I had pointed out that at uncommon
    True Counts, in either direction, Hitting or
    Standing becomes optimal.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    The DDR rule(s) for Sp21 dictate surrendering a doubled 17 vs A.
    It is deck composition dependent. But the vast majority of the time this is the correct play. High enough T density and you don't rescue. Of course you need an ace neutral count to know when that deck composition occurs.

  10. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    It is deck composition dependent. But the vast majority of the time this is the correct play. High enough T density and you don't rescue.
    In that case, with a deck rich in A-4 compared to 5-T, standing doubled 17 vs A is favoured, correct? Or would we surrender as the dealer has a better chance of drawing 18-21?

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    In that case, with a deck rich in A-4 compared to 5-T, standing doubled 17 vs A is favoured, correct?
    The 7, 8 and 9 are bad news as a hole card. The 6 is a push in S17. Any other hole cards bust when followed by 2 T's. Or a better way to look at it any hard stiff is busted by a T. If there is enough of a chance of developing the dealer hand into a hard stiff in a deck rich enough in T's the bust rate can be high enough to warrant waving off your DDR option.

    So hopefully you can see the 5-T card grouping won't work because it is rich in cards that make a 2 card dealer hand and make too many hard stiffs into a made hand. The 5 makes every stiff into a made hand. The 6 makes a 12 thru 15. The 7 makes a 12 thru 14. etc. Ideally you want just T's against other cards. That means a level 2 system. Most (level 2) SP21 counts include the 9 as a (weak) high card just to get 1 extra low card into the count. The penalty is minimal since you pretty much always hit 12 against everything and never take insurance. The 9 as a hole card with the ace will make the dealer total 20. But you know the dealer doesn't have a T under. If he doesn't have a made 2 card hand the bust rate is high even including the 9 as a high card.

  12. #38


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    The DDR rule(s) for Sp21 dictate surrendering a doubled 17 vs A.
    I know, that is what I said.

  13. #39


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    In that case, with a deck rich in A-4 compared to 5-T, standing doubled 17 vs A is favoured, correct?
    No, quite the opposite.

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