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Thread: USnews article on Vegas profitability

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    USnews article on Vegas profitability


    https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2017-01-12/nevada-casinos-turn-profit-in-fiscal-2016-first-since-2008


    I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I've tried to start a new thread and post an article from USnews that puts the Vegas gambling situation in much better perspective than Nicholas Colon's article.

    The big takeaway from me is how small gaming revenue has become to the overall success of Vegas casinos. Gaming revenue has dropped to 34% of their total revenue in 2016. It's been dropping each year, with non-gaming revenue becoming more important to their success. The last time gaming revenues were 50% of Vegas revenue was 1996.

    I don't know how much of the 34% revenue comes from blackjack, but I expect it's in the 5 to 10% range. The majority of their gaming revenue comes from slots.

    This is why the whole discussion around blackjack, APs and spending on "gaming protection" is almost laughable. I don't believe the casinos are spending much time on this since it's such a small part of their revenue stream. I've read somewhere (I can't find it right now) that the main expenditures on "game protection" by casinos is more around cost reduction. How can they use new technology to reduce the costs to protect their games?

    I do believe Zee is correct on this one. The APs are so caught up in their world that they don't understand what is driving casinos. Casinos are not trolling bj sites (at least not anybody of any consequences) for the latest AP methods or to learn about some AP blackjack trip. They are more caught up on how to compete against the casinos that are opening up around the world.

    This is, in fact, what caused Vegas to change their focus from gaming to being more of an entertainment destination. Today, almost everybody is within an hour or two drive of a casino (which Zee has already pointed out). For Vegas to attract people, they had to expand their offerings. I have many friends who live around Atlanta who go to Vegas once a year due to the shows and entertainment. If they only wanted to gamble at minimal costs, they'd drive to Biloxi.

    I'm prepared for the backlash on this post. I mainly wanted to put it out there so people wouldn't be so scared to post comments that will help APs. Trust me (and Zee), you don't need to worry about casinos reading these sites and gaining valuable insight into AP techniques. Most of what is discussed here is already in books that have been written 20 to 30 years ago anyway.

  2. #2
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    There is a meaningful split between Las Vegas and most other casino venues.

    Most of the revenue earned by (the larger) L.V. casinos is from those seeking a "resort experience." Shows, Restaurants, Hotels, Night Clubs, Bottle Service, Cabanas, parking fees, resort fees, etc. fill their vaults.

    In most of the remaining casinos, (in North America at least), their gaming revenue is from gambling activities, especially by those who can be properly diagnosed as "Pathological Gamblers." Those individuals are perhaps 5% of the casino patrons, but their losses dwarf those of Mr. and Mrs. Jones by orders of magnitude.

  3. #3


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    It's the nature of this site. There are resident pros who, while good AP's, like to believe they have the answer to everything everywhere. Anyone that contests anything gets slammed. Resident Pros playing a particular count will address any count, pros who either never played rated or did so decades ago will expound on players cards and playing rated, pros that mostly play Las Vegas advising a local player who plays in Caruthersville, Mo or someone who plays only 6 decks advising on SD players or vice versa.

    While they have been 100% right on how to play a hand and BJ related stuff, they have been wrong on playing rated, OSN etc. They seem to believe that every casinos solution to increasing income is improving BJ rules and tolerating AP's, and every casino losing money is due to CSM 's or 8 decks or cut card placement of back offs.

    It's amusing how wrong they have been. They ridiculed me for posting stuff here that gave away my identity (as if multiple casinos in multiple locations are paying $50k a year to monitor this forum and catch a dumb card counter like me who won $500 from their casino), chuckled with "I told you" when one casino in one town put me on OSN, and on and on.

    In the three months since I got put on OSN, I have stayed in comped rooms at Mlife, CET, received gifts from Trop and table play vouchers from Pinnacle and Station casinos.

    Why can't they stick to their areas of expertise and stop being so arrogant in their participation in these threads?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    Precisely! Thanks for posting. This is the point I've been trying to make. It's competition, specifically Macaw, that has had the biggest impact on Vegas's profits. It's not things related to blackjack, like the 6:5 game and where the dealer puts the cut card, or charging for parking or spending too much on "game protection".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Precisely! Thanks for posting. This is the point I've been trying to make. It's competition, specifically Macaw, that has had the biggest impact on Vegas's profits. It's not things related to blackjack, like the 6:5 game and where the dealer puts the cut card, or charging for parking or spending too much on "game protection".
    I don't buy it. What percentage of Americans go to Macau for gambling? It's local casinos in the USA that keep gamblers home. People used to go to Vegas for gambling, now they stay near home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I don't buy it. What percentage of Americans go to Macau for gambling? It's local casinos in the USA that keep gamblers home. People used to go to Vegas for gambling, now they stay near home.
    Agreed! I said "competition" and many times on other posts have said it's all the new local casinos that have hurt Vegas. But we shouldn't lose site of the fact that Vegas used to be a worldwide destination for big gamblers, specifically asians. These gamblers are now going to Macaw. Macaw has definitely had a huge impact on Vegas profits. I've read many articles discussing this. Most wouldn't disputed this point.

    It's a combination of the proliferation of new casinos (locally and worldwide) that has hurt Vegas. This is why Vegas has done an incredible job reinventing itseft to keeep relevant. They are still relevant in a highly competitive landscape. This is probably due to good management.

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    Meant sight, not site. Typed my last post quickly. Sorry about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dbs6582 View Post
    Precisely! Thanks for posting. This is the point I've been trying to make. It's competition, specifically Macaw, that has had the biggest impact on Vegas's profits. It's not things related to blackjack, like the 6:5 game and where the dealer puts the cut card, or charging for parking or spending too much on "game protection".
    Do not underestimate the cost of 6:5, cut card location, parking fees, resort fees and all their attendant cost increases.

    Las Vegas visitation is at all time levels, why isn't the revenue?
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post

    Las Vegas visitation is at all time levels, why isn't the revenue?
    That question answers itself: the people are in LV but not in the casinos. They are spreading their ‘bankrolls’ in ways they find more satisfying. Could more liberal gambling rules pull them back? Perhaps, over time: it’s a utility question about bang for buck and right now the casinos are playing at a disadvantage to other offerings.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Do not underestimate the cost of 6:5, cut card location, parking fees, resort fees and all their attendant cost increases.
    I agree with Red Green's comments. I'll add that I think the above moves in your posts have helped revenue for the casinos on the strip. The revenues would probably be worst without these moves. These moves won't have much impact on the people flying into Vegas for vacation. They will play the 6:5 game without thinking about it and won't mind paying a little extra for parking and the other misc fees. I give casinos management more credit than some. I think these moves were studied and monitored by the casinos to make sure they wouldn't impact attendence while increasing revenue.

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    To be clear, it would be nice to roll back the clock on Vegas - not too far, mind you, no one needs an extra .025% in exchange for a trip to the desert, but back to a gambling Mecca instead of a gigantic Ripley’s showcase. Prognosticating, I’m hard pressed to imagine that in 20 years it won’t be all digital and 3D games, holographic dealers and croupiers. That may be the end of the AP.


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    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    After reading the article linked, there is mentioned the small increase in room revenue and food revenue. Personally, I think that incremental increase could well be caused by the more difficult nature in acquiring comps AND the substantial increase in food prices. While I can't refer to actual statistics, I can sure confirm this by personal observation and allegorically. And what is to say that gambling revenue would NOT increase if rules were relaxed.........no more 6-5 on multideck games; less restrictive rules on card games; better payouts on VP and lower hold percentages on slot machines. Surely the average gambler "notices" them not being able to play as long as they used to on their gambling dollar? Much less an AP. Would John Doe average gambler play more of his money, exposing it to the inevitable HE if he felt he was getting a better bang for his buck?

    But Vegas will be a destination and a "mystique" to average Joe. And continue to be a "mirage" in the desert based upon it's "former reputation". I personally do NOT think that the move away from gambling is a smart decision in the long haul. I think Vegas can be BOTH!
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

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