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Thread: Double Deck, Two Hands or One off the top?

  1. #1


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    Double Deck, Two Hands or One off the top?

    Best local store for me is Double Deck, H17, DAS, 60-75% pen, no soft doubling, no mid shoe entry, and no mid shoe increase in # of hands. Playing 2 hands is allowed making the table minimum bet, instead of typical 2x table minimum, but it has to be done from the shuffle.
    Normally in DD, I move from 1 hand of 8 units to 2 hands of 6 units only when I have a positive KO expectation.
    My question is, since 2 hands has to be played off the top in negative territory in this case, does it make EV and Risk sense to start with 2 hands at 1 unit with 1 to 2 other players at the table? I’m guessing no. Obviously I would drop to 1 hand or head to the washroom at a predetermined count. Casino Heat is a non factor in this question.
    Thanks in advance.


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  2. #2


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    Always play two hands, except if the count really tanks.

  3. #3


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    Usually this question is determined by the perceived need for cover betting; i.e., many take the approach of always starting with two hands and then riding it out until a couple of losses in a row and/or the count really tanks. That tends to disguise the true spread being employed.

    However, with no heat (really?) and also assuming the table isn't crowded, I wouldn't sacrifice the EV by going two hands off the top. I would just increase my spread using a one-hand approach. If the table is crowded and there are no other tables available, then the two-hand approach would probably be best - gives you a better shot at the good cards in high counts and keeps the spot occupied so another plop doesn't zoom in.

  4. #4


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    I agree with Bigdaddy. Playing 2 hands heads-up just lessens your effective penetration.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul21 View Post
    Best local store for me is Double Deck, H17, DAS, 60-75% pen, no soft doubling, no mid shoe entry, and no mid shoe increase in # of hands. Playing 2 hands is allowed making the table minimum bet, instead of typical 2x table minimum, but it has to be done from the shuffle.
    You can play two at minimum? For me, I'd open with two hands at minimum. I usually open with a mid range bet, for cover. Two at minimum would he a mid range bet in this scenario, for me at least. I can't sim it for you right now, maybe someone else can. I MAY BE WRONG, but I think two hands at minimum would increase your EV while maintaining your ROR.

    Not the question you asked, but I'd check out the shoe games. In my experience, stores with a marginal DD game usually have a good shoe game. No soft doubles really hurts.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul21 View Post
    Playing 2 hands is allowed making the table minimum bet, instead of typical 2x table minimum, but it has to be done from the shuffle.
    The key here is you don't have to double min to play two hands. I would play two hands for sure especially if more than one other player at the table. You can always drop to one if it starts to go bad.

  7. #7


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    I start with two habds, drop to one when count drops. If count goes up, it's easier because to get more money on table. I star with a Green chip on each hand. If count goes to +1, one hand goes to $50, the other stays at $25. At +2, both hands can have 2 chips or 3 chips or one can have 2 chips, the other 3 chips. Stacks never get high enough to stand out.

  8. #8


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    I’m contemplating it all. The sim is a complicated one but it would likely say never play two hands in this game.. however I will do so every third or fourth shuffle off the top...stick with two if count stays good. Drop to one otherwise.


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  9. #9


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    Thanks all for the advice and thoughts...I’ve looked at the score for 1-8 play all (or nearly so) in that Double Deck game with 70% penetration versus back counting 6 decks with 1.25 cut off and according to DS Chapter 10 the 2 Deck is a significantly better game from what I see. No soft doubling hurts but it can’t be that bad.


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  10. #10


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    If you can play 2xmin, then you always start at two and keep 2 in negative counts to eat cards, if others at table you can drop to one and make poppies eat more of the negative count. If count gets good, then consolidated to one hand if heads up or just keep with two if other players.

    The sims are going to be wrong, because starting 2x2min off the top effectively conceals your bet spread and lets you get away with something more like 12-16x spread instead of 8x spread. And especially the ability to play min bets on each hand will let you eat up bad decks faster and get you back into positive counts more often. 2 hands will lower variance, which lets you get more money on the table at same net risk and all around is going to be +ev.
    Last edited by hypercube; 02-23-2018 at 12:27 PM.

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