Learning cover and its costs?

[Freightman]

Have you tried opposition betting? How about utilizing uncommon index plays?

I won't comment much, except to say that opposition betting, properly done, is very profitable, and can hide a large spread.

I make weird index plays all the time - along with some ploppy type comment

[Freightman]

For self protection, I keep my water pistol in the car. Unfortunately, the water froze.

when my kids were young, I had them equipped with the Super Soaker 200. They were lots of fun.

[Ustonzen]

I split tens vs five and six at TC +7 or above. At this point the gain from splitting is simply too great to ignore, and before that the extra +EV isn't really worth the variance incurred from giving up a "sure thing".

I'm glad

Never use my real name with friendly relations with all pit bosses and dealers knowing personal details about me. I am known as a friendly, quiet, polite player who tips more than most who hits hard 17s for fun, doubles 12-16 occasionally, always takes insurance and likes to split 10s. Any call out to the pit from my table doesn't even garner a glance

The stuff i regularly do and get away with at the local place if i tried without players card out of state i would get immediate taps.

As far as cover dont use any, except, standing on a soft 15, or hit a hard 17 once is enough to get ploppies to bitch about how bad a player you for rest of night.

Doubling for less with 12-16 when you are taking a card anyway, insuring for less, hitting the negative index hands, like 13v2, 13c3, 12v4, 12v5 etc, splitting against good dealer cards in negative counts to eat up cards, etc. Lots of things that look like horrible plays that are not.

Highly respected pros and mentors advise not to split 10s but the ev is just too much for me to give up,

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[ZeeBabar]

Thanks guys. Its good to see that those who dislike me, think I am a troll are maturing and not coming on the thread to tell others to ignore me.

The OP is an issue for me. I just returned from a trip, having played without my players cards for the entire trip. Problem is that I was a bit afraid they would back me off, so underbet a bit, did not hit Ace,8 and often took insurance after having successfully done it with my max bet out. The pit guy seemed to be trying to distract me, making conversation and such and sticking around all the time. Bottom line is that despite some good shoes, I ended up simply breaking even.

Its one thing to not be afraid to get backed off in Las Vegas ( I can go to other casinos) and another to lose the few casinos with 4 hour drive from my home.

[Freightman]

Thanks guys. Its good to see that those who dislike me, think I am a troll are maturing and not coming on the thread to tell others to ignore me.

The OP is an issue for me. I just returned from a trip, having played without my players cards for the entire trip. Problem is that I was a bit afraid they would back me off, so underbet a bit, did not hit Ace,8 and often took insurance after having successfully done it with my max bet out. The pit guy seemed to be trying to distract me, making conversation and such and sticking around all the time. Bottom line is that despite some good shoes, I ended up simply breaking even.

Its one thing to not be afraid to get backed off in Las Vegas ( I can go to other casinos) and another to lose the few casinos with 4 hour drive from my home.

We all think you're a pain in the ass. You're lazy and stubborn. You have worked hard to obtain that badge of distinction. Pretend you have 4 balls, and walk proudly. You drive traffic.

So, when I tell you how hopeless you are, I mean that in the nicest possible way.

[Meistro123]

Problem is that I was a bit afraid they would back me off, so underbet a bit, did not hit Ace,8

Ace eight is never a hit, presumably you were thinking of ace seven.

[Freightman]

Ace eight is never a hit, presumably you were thinking of ace seven.

Some people will double ace 8 v 4,5,6, depending on true.

[RCJH]

Its one thing to not be afraid to get backed off in Las Vegas ( I can go to other casinos) and another to lose the few casinos with 4 hour drive from my home.

Zee, after your first OSN entry we told you to not play rated, but you insisted...and what happened? Now you've lost all of your local spots, and are on the radar everywhere else. Here's a fact: with each update you are again at the top of the list, the first name they see. So either curb your need to be known, or risk losing every casino everywhere.

I don't think you're a troll. I think you are lonely, and need the affirmation you get from a casino, and the attention you get from forums. I don't think you WANT to get better.

You have two choices: play with cover and pray they don't investigate, or play optimally until you get the tap. Or I suppose you could continue to play rated, and keep getting updated...it's your choice.

Zee, I only get frustrated with you when you give poor advice to new players. For years you said playing rated was great. Think of all the new people you may have convinced to get a card. Look what it did to you. Would you still give the same advice?

[RCJH]

Ace eight is never a hit, presumably you were thinking of ace seven.

It can be a double, though... been there done that.

[tomf23]

I'm glad zeebar is back with a new account and not banned.

Never using an id or players card outside my state has certainly hindered what i can get away with. Often times only white guy in casino and only person in casino not using players card, = they already don't want your business and you are being watched, then first time you spread they have their excuse. Mostly playing decisions are nor a factor, the bet spread is, and when they see you hit a blackjack after min betting then betting your whole stack, they don't know or care if you were just lucky or how you beat them.

I cant help to think that playing with a players card under a fake id would have allowed much longer sessions and lower heat at these sweat shops.

Compared to play of around 500 hours at my local shop in home state in last year and never any real heat or backoff under my real name with friendly relations with all pit bosses and dealers knowing personal details about me. I am known as a friendly, quiet, polite player who tips more than most who hits hard 17s for fun, doubles 12-16 occasionally, always takes insurance and likes to split 10s. Any call out to the pit from my table doesn't even garner a glance and is ignored because they know its just me doubling a hard 16 again for fun.

The stuff i regularly do and get away with at the local place if i tried without players card out of state i would get immediate taps.

As far as cover dont use any, except, standing on a soft 15, or hit a hard 17 once is enough to get ploppies to bitch about how bad a player you for rest of night.

Doubling for less with 12-16 when you are taking a card anyway, insuring for less, hitting the negative index hands, like 13v2, 13c3, 12v4, 12v5 etc, splitting against good dealer cards in negative counts to eat up cards, etc. Lots of things that look like horrible plays that are not.

Highly respected pros and mentors advise not to split 10s but the ev is just too much for me to give up, based on that logic should we just give up insurance too? taking insurance looks just as bad to pit as splitting 10s, but no one is advising to give up insurance. Where does the cover stop?, soon its a game not worth playing if you give up your ev.

I admit these guys have much more experience than I do, and maybe one day i will agree with this, but im not there yet, playing decisions do not seem to be much of a factor, surveillance for the most part is not very smart, the bet spread is what makes them pay attention, not playing decisions.

i saw someone split tens the other day who clearly wasn't counting. it was the first time i've seen it in a very long time. but people take insurance all the time.

[Freightman]

i saw someone split tens the other day who clearly wasn't counting. it was the first time i've seen it in a very long time. but people take insurance all the time.

Insurance is something I will forgo with a mediocre hand with tc right at the the strike point. I will insure a good hand right at strike point (and below), and insure almost all hands above the strike point. This would be a play decision utilizing the FBM ASC.

Splitting 10's for me is a bit problematic (I've only done it once, maybe twice). The concern is pretty simple. The pit has made some sort of evaluation on me. Regardless of any cover played etc etc., they know I'm not an idiot. Only very good, or very bad players will split 10's. Very good players are all counters at the least.

[ZeeBabar]

Zee, I only get frustrated with you when you give poor advice to new players. For years you said playing rated was great. Think of all the new people you may have convinced to get a card. Look what it did to you. Would you still give the same advice?[/QUOTE]

RCJH, there is really nothing wrong with playing rated when a newbie. It eliminates a lot of heat, eliminates the paranoia a newbie gets because he thinks raising his bet from $10 to $40 will get him in trouble. My mistake was not being more judicious about it. I played rated for 3+ years and the benefits are still there. On my last visit last month, after being on OSN, was in a comped suite for 3 nights in Las Vegas,

There are no absolutes about playing rated. For recreational players, part-timers, it does not hurt. Its only when one has become fairly good, has started playing extensively, has started having a positive win loss record that one can give up the use of players card. I just did not do it soon enough.

I have even heard from AP's who use a players card with one chain so they could get comped rooms and meals in Las Vegas while they mostly play anonymously in all other casinos. On my last visit to Las Vegas, I just played even and even took a small loss at the casino I was staying at and played anonymously at its sister casinos.

[Member Name Hidden]

I decide when Im going to stand. I decide when Im gong to hit. When it's close I let the dealer decide on 16vs10. This hand occurs maybe 6 times over the course 100 hands on average. If they are watching that close, I probably shouldn't playing in that casino...or I've misjudged another more vital area that is forcing the issue.

There is a parallel between poker and blackjack. Seek out tables populated with players you can beat. Likewise, look for casinos that will allow you to win from them.