Learning cover and its costs?

[ZeeBabar]

Having mostly played with a card, now trying to play anonymously I am finding some difficulty. The heat is higher.

They say a CC has a small edge. I wonder how much smaller it gets when we abstain from some deviations (splitting tens), compromise our bet because we are being watched, compromise our play so they dont see us as very good (not doubling A,8 against a bust card) or varying our play according to count too much (insurance, not hitting 15 against a 9 because the TC is very high, you have a max bet out etc.).

To me, its easier playing a good game at red chips stake but moving up to Greens, there are compromises to be made that might wither the edge to nothing. How do you handle these issues. Do you just go with "I am playing my game and if it results in a backoff, so be it"?

At busy times with lots of tables open in the HL room, I find that I play conservatively for a couple of rounds and the pit goes elsewhere but at other times after midnight or early mornings, you get heads up play but the heat is pretty focused and I feel being evaluated and miss out on opportunities by less than optimal betting or using deviations too much. The "act" requirements increase.

The experienced here can help with some sharing of philosophy.

[Freightman]

Having mostly played with a card, now trying to play anonymously I am finding some difficulty. The heat is higher.

They say a CC has a small edge. I wonder how much smaller it gets when we abstain from some deviations (splitting tens), compromise our bet because we are being watched, compromise our play so they dont see us as very good (not doubling A,8 against a bust card) or varying our play according to count too much (insurance, not hitting 15 against a 9 because the TC is very high, you have a max bet out etc.).

To me, its easier playing a good game at red chips stake but moving up to Greens, there are compromises to be made that might wither the edge to nothing. How do you handle these issues. Do you just go with "I am playing my game and if it results in a backoff, so be it"?

At busy times with lots of tables open in the HL room, I find that I play conservatively for a couple of rounds and the pit goes elsewhere but at other times after midnight or early mornings, you get heads up play but the heat is pretty focused and I feel being evaluated and miss out on opportunities by less than optimal betting or using deviations too much. The "act" requirements increase.

The experienced here can help with some sharing of philosophy.

Zeeb
Thank you for your routine and mundane post, the answer which is readily available through simple searches. Welcome back.

The cost of cover is a cost of doing business , that expense being covered through optimal betting which includes proper spread. Since you do not utilize optimal spreads, you cannot afford the cost of cover. Don't sweat it.

At such time as you do bet optimally, improve your act with a blood curdled comment - I need a woman, would fit in well with your persona, and the critters will leave you also alone.

[Meistro123]

Don't use cover.

[Freightman]

Zeeb
Thank you for your routine and mundane post, the answer which is readily available through simple searches. Welcome back.

The cost of cover is a cost of doing business , that expense being covered through optimal betting which includes proper spread. Since you do not utilize optimal spreads, you cannot afford the cost of cover. Don't sweat it.

At such time as you do bet optimally, improve your act with a blood curdled comment - I need a woman, would fit in well with your persona, and the critters will leave you also alone.

Zeeb
A lesson
I have recently learned for myself, the cost of a sub par AP move. I recently returned home from the bakery, noting my wife's car in front of the house. As I entered the house fooling around as I usually do, I yelled out - I want sex, I need sex. As I proceeded into the kitchen, I noted that sweet smile from my wife, the smile that says you're in a shit load of trouble.

I didn't know that the Lubavitcher Rebbetzin was also in a the kitchen, also having coffee and pastry (yeah, my house is kosher enough, oh, and that pastry wasn't from the French bakery). I mumbled something about - well, maybe not at this particular moment, as I slithered from the room.

I won't regale you with tales of later in the day commentary, however, I felt like a catholic during confession - say 3 tehilim, make 5 donations, and perform 7 mitzvahs.

Moral of the story - do all things optimally. Time for the gym.

[Stealth]

Having mostly played with a card, now trying to play anonymously I am finding some difficulty. The heat is higher.

Really? It took you this long to learn about cards, why should we now hope that providing guidance on cover will result in anything but, yet another, rejection of those thoughts and experiences? Many on this site are willing to help but few are willing to help and then be told their wrong, as you have done countless times!

Do you think no one else is playing at the green and higher level? Do you think they play like a red chipper?

Your ability to learn and grow is underwhelming. Their are countless post on cover on this site that are readily available, suggest you seek them out.

[Freightman]

Really? It took you this long to learn about cards, why should we now hope that providing guidance on cover will result in anything but, yet another, rejection of those thoughts and experiences? Many on this site are willing to help but few are willing to help and then be told their wrong, as you have done countless times!

Do you think no one else is playing at the green and higher level? Do you think they play like a red chipper?

Your ability to learn and grow is underwhelming. Their are countless post on cover on this site that are readily available, suggest you seek them out.

For self protection, I keep my water pistol in the car. Unfortunately, the water froze.

[Ustonzen]

Moral of the story - do all things optimally. Time for the gym.

Our feud is officially over.
I want to meet in the spring

[Freightman]

Our feud is officially over.
I want to meet in the spring

Okay
Should we meet on holy ground.
https://youtu.be/1qPX1MwxYwg

[Ustonzen]

I think im going to download that for the drive - renting a car this time

[tomf23]

Don't use cover.

do you always split tens when called for?

[Meistro123]

do you always split tens when called for?

I split tens vs five and six at TC +7 or above. At this point the gain from splitting is simply too great to ignore, and before that the extra +EV isn't really worth the variance incurred from giving up a "sure thing".

[hypercube]

I'm glad zeebar is back with a new account and not banned.

Never using an id or players card outside my state has certainly hindered what i can get away with. Often times only white guy in casino and only person in casino not using players card, = they already don't want your business and you are being watched, then first time you spread they have their excuse. Mostly playing decisions are nor a factor, the bet spread is, and when they see you hit a blackjack after min betting then betting your whole stack, they don't know or care if you were just lucky or how you beat them.

I cant help to think that playing with a players card under a fake id would have allowed much longer sessions and lower heat at these sweat shops.

Compared to play of around 500 hours at my local shop in home state in last year and never any real heat or backoff under my real name with friendly relations with all pit bosses and dealers knowing personal details about me. I am known as a friendly, quiet, polite player who tips more than most who hits hard 17s for fun, doubles 12-16 occasionally, always takes insurance and likes to split 10s. Any call out to the pit from my table doesn't even garner a glance and is ignored because they know its just me doubling a hard 16 again for fun.

The stuff i regularly do and get away with at the local place if i tried without players card out of state i would get immediate taps.

As far as cover dont use any, except, standing on a soft 15, or hit a hard 17 once is enough to get ploppies to bitch about how bad a player you for rest of night.

Doubling for less with 12-16 when you are taking a card anyway, insuring for less, hitting the negative index hands, like 13v2, 13c3, 12v4, 12v5 etc, splitting against good dealer cards in negative counts to eat up cards, etc. Lots of things that look like horrible plays that are not.

Highly respected pros and mentors advise not to split 10s but the ev is just too much for me to give up, based on that logic should we just give up insurance too? taking insurance looks just as bad to pit as splitting 10s, but no one is advising to give up insurance. Where does the cover stop?, soon its a game not worth playing if you give up your ev.

I admit these guys have much more experience than I do, and maybe one day i will agree with this, but im not there yet, playing decisions do not seem to be much of a factor, surveillance for the most part is not very smart, the bet spread is what makes them pay attention, not playing decisions.

[Freightman]

I split tens vs five and six at TC +7 or above. At this point the gain from splitting is simply too great to ignore, and before that the extra +EV isn't really worth the variance incurred from giving up a "sure thing".

Not that I agree with splitting 10's (heat issues), the general concept of the risk averse split is worth commenting on. Meistro prefers the risk averse index vs. The strike point index - the reason being

1. The gain is to much to ignore
2. By foregoing maximum EV (at strike point), he avoids significant variance, the long term gain by splitting at strike point simply being marginal.
3. By avoiding high variance strike point index, he is likely going to use a higher max bet. By doing so, he will actually make more money.