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Thread: Precision Blackjack by Ron DiBenedetto 4 Sale

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    Norm, for one. And FWIW, in matters of legitimate blackjack strategy vs. voodoo, I'll go with his judgment anytime. Not only that, I am not interested in risking my hard-earned money on ideas regarding card play that cannot be verified by scientific analysis. If anyone does want to try out such ideas, I wish them the best of luck, and deep down, I really feel they'll need it. So far in the history of card playing, no one has come up with a successful strategy that runs counter to the laws of probability. ESP, paranormal stuff, quantum theories, and the like, are fine the laboratory, but have no place in a professional gambler's repertoire, at least, not until they become provable strategies.

    We should take a strong stand against this stuff on the Forum. It's insidious and can infiltrate all the clear and provable methods and techniques discussed here. It is better left to some other type forum just to ensure that we don't mix up our p's and q's. Too much of this discussion may lead newbies to put some degree of faith in silly notions.
    Asian, it was a rhetorical question. It wasn't supposed to have an answer. I also wasn't suggesting that anyone buy the book. The real pondering was about Zengrifter's mentioning of the use of unprovable methods, including unordinary cues to depart a shoe. Are you unwilling to use those methods as well?
    Last edited by Boz; 02-11-2013 at 03:10 PM.

  2. #28
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Asian, it was a rhetorical question. It wasn't supposed to have an answer. I also wasn't suggesting that anyone buy the book. The real pondering was about Zengrifter's mentioning of the use of unprovable methods, including unordinary cues to depart a shoe. Are you unwilling to use those methods as well?
    zg is just being zg. Take it for its humor value.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #29
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    Asian, it was a rhetorical question. It wasn't supposed to have an answer. I also wasn't suggesting that anyone buy the book. The real pondering was about Zengrifter's mentioning of the use of unprovable methods, including unordinary cues to depart a shoe. Are you unwilling to use those methods as well?
    I didn't mean to offend, but I felt rhetorical or not, it deserved an answer, at least for the benefit of others, especially newbies who might consider using them. Yes, I am unwilling to use any of those methods until proven or someone else puts up the money. If they work, then they should work in the laboratory, as well. That's the place to test them-- not on your or my bankroll. I'm not saying that you would use them, and it is all right to be open to new ideas. I just don't think an AP Forum is the place. YMMV.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #30


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    I didn't mean to offend, but I felt rhetorical or not, it deserved an answer, at least for the benefit of others, especially newbies who might consider using them. Yes, I am unwilling to use any of those methods until proven or someone else puts up the money. If they work, then they should work in the laboratory, as well. That's the place to test them-- not on your or my bankroll. I'm not saying that you would use them, and it is all right to be open to new ideas. I just don't think an AP Forum is the place. YMMV.
    u didnt offend, i just thought u misunderstood. i agree, i wouldnt use something unproven.

  5. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    zg is just being zg. Take it for its humor value.
    he was kidding?

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    he was kidding?
    Probably not but we all think his ideas are funny. He believes all sorts of things. Sometimes he is just trying to stir things up but you never know with him.

  7. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    Probably not but we all think his ideas are funny. He believes all sorts of things. Sometimes he is just trying to stir things up but you never know with him.
    well im gonna go w/my first instinct and not pursue his ideas. it seems like norm didnt even know what he was talkin about.

  8. #34
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz View Post
    it seems like norm didnt even know what he was talkin about.
    Yeah, that must be it.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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  11. #37
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    Me or the author? My ideas can be found in the ZGI, mostly solid count-related fundementals (I think)
    As long as I've known you, if anyone can know another via an anonymous forum, I am still often unsure whether you're being serious or not.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #38
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
    For the record, I flagged this thread and requested it be moved to the Disadvantage forum ...
    ... where we are not intellectually constrained by 'provable' statistical logic.
    Moved to the Disadvantage Forum.

    People should know that Don Schlesinger was once associated with JP decades ago when he ran respectable schools. When this crap came out, Don denounced it and the schools. Eddie Olsen was also a part of it and ran the original sims. He later denounced it and removed himself from this nonsense. JP (Jerry Patterson), Boris (Ron Fitch), and others have continued to spout this nonsense for decades despite the fact that no recognized expert stands by it.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  13. #39
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    I investigated some of this card clumping stuff when I first heard about it over 15 years ago. Some of the arguments were compelling with regards to counting shoe games - in 6 or 8 deck games there is no guarantee that a surplus of big cards detected by counting will actually be dealt. If the big cards are behind the cut card and are not dealt the counter is raising his bets into a section of the shoe that has a high house advantage and likely will lose a lot of bets. Straight card counting shoe games where you stay and play is not nearly as efficient as counting hand held games where the surplus of high cards detected by the count have a much greater chance of actually being dealt.

    There are scientifically proven, sound ways of handling this. One way is opposition betting, which was written about by Arnold Snyder in Blackjack Forum magazine and is contained in Blackbelt in Blackjack. Basically you wait until you see some big cards start to come out, then you raise your bets. See BBIBJ for more info on this technique. The other way is shuffle tracking, which is the most accurate way to play shoe games. Areas of the shoe are tracked for 10s density and when high 10s density areas are shuffled together their location is noted and big bets are made when these areas are dealt out.

    Systems that claim to solve the issue of non-random shuffles without regard to counting the shoe and actually tracking the location of high 10s density areas are hogwash. The card play methods they developed may actually have merit, if you knew when the 10s were coming out of the shoe. Using their card play methods in areas of a shoe that have a normal distribution of 10s will result in greater losses than playing basic strategy in these areas of the shoe.

    Then there are the betting methods that come with these systems. They rely heavily on negative and positive progressions, postulating that their card play methods result greater than 50% hands won, thus making progressions a viable betting method. Maybe they would be if they actually knew the areas of the shoe that had excesses of 10s and deficiencies of 10s, which they don't. This would be like pitching a baseball game while wearing a blindfold. Maybe they can throw a strike every now and then, but I wouldn't bet on it.


    E Clifton Davis is a developer and seller of some of these systems. I actually met him at a "seminar" I read about in the newspaper that was really a sales pitch where he sold his systems. He said he won nearly every time he played and would go to a local casino to prove it. I went to the casino to watch him play, where he proceeded to play at 3 tables and lost money at all of them. He said this was the first time that ever happened and it was because "the clumping wasn't right". I had seen enough and left at that point.


    I have not seen nor read the Precision Blackjack manual, nor do I have any interest in doing so. Based on my experience with similar systems I do not think it is an advantage system. If you want to apply a real precision system to shoe games, you need to learn to track, IMO.

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