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Thread: Backoffs in MO and NJ

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    Backoffs in MO and NJ

    Many people know that it is illegal to "back off" a blackjack card counter in the states of MO and NJ. They have to let you keep playing but instead will just start shuffling every hand or something.

    What I am wondering is, does this inability to back off AP's only apply to blackjack card counting or also to other forms of advantage play? Can they back you off for counting spanish 21 or any other game that is not blackjack? What if you are hole carding blackjack or doing something else?

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    Senior Member blackjackomaha's Avatar
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    Specifically in MO -- they can adjust the game to compensate -- change dealers, shuffle after every hand, shut down the table, change cards, add cut cards, etc.
    You don't score, until you SCORE!

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    They'll basically find ways to make it miserable.

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    In Atlantic city they just make up another reason to kick you.They will say you were disturbing the peace, or some other,bs excuse.

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    MO is unique.

    They can't back you off for any game of "skill" and blackjack is considered a game of skill. Ditto for Sp21. Carney games aren't classified as games of skill, but I suspect the same guidelines would apply. They just drop table max or cut the shoe in half.

    If you're hole carding, and signaling a team mate, that would be legal to BO. You are giving info to another person. I have seen them shut down a table when a guy was crushing a side bet. I watched for a while, and couldn't figure out what he was doing--maybe just getting lucky--but they shut it down. But the player was allowed to play elsewhere.

    I also know they back off other types of APs, but use questionable reasons, such as player A was harassing player B.

    Omaha is also correct, in that they can make it miserable to be there. Security will follow you around. Eventually the AP loses his cool, says something, and THEN they can trespass.

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    I think its worse than backing off. Pit whispers something to dealer, dealer cuts off 2/3 of shoe or shuffles every other round, a ploppy asks dealer why, dealer shrugs, another ploppy says "they think one of us is counting cards" and you are the only one varying your bets or one who just sat at the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndretheGiant View Post
    In Atlantic city they just make up another reason to kick you.They will say you were disturbing the peace, or some other,bs excuse.
    You must be careful as to WHEATHER you're dusturbing the peace, or disturbing the piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    I think its worse than backing off. Pit whispers something to dealer, dealer cuts off 2/3 of shoe or shuffles every other round, a ploppy asks dealer why, dealer shrugs, another ploppy says "they think one of us is counting cards" and you are the only one varying your bets or one who just sat at the table.
    It's not so bad. Just relax and scratch your balls.
    Why, earlier this week, I was at this quaint place, doing my thing, and the dealer half shied me. He had been giving me 5.0 and 5.5/6 on a previous shift. My my, I quipped - that was certainly a fast shoe. Another dealer came on, was about to give me 5.0/6, and the critter comes by and whispers, cut it in half, which she does. She was no spring chicken, but you could tell she was a good looking girl in her day, and still wasn't bad to look at. I didn't know this one well enough to tell her what a nice rack she had - so we had a pleasant conversation on this rather quick shoe. I told her the pit was sick of me, and wanted to send me a message. Oh no she said, that's not true - she was sincere. One more courtesy shoe I told her, telling her I would lose a few bucks back. I am certainly a man if my word, losing $150 back, still with a lovely profit.

    Don't sweat it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Pit whispers something to dealer, dealer cuts off 2/3 of shoe or shuffles every other round, a ploppy asks dealer why, dealer shrugs, another ploppy says "they think one of us is counting cards" and you are the only one varying your bets or one who just sat at the table.
    Then you suddenly jump up from the table and rejoice with a large smile, and a hard fist pump in the air an announce for everyone to hear, I am now a threat. Meanwhile thinking that you have hit the big leagues. Back to reality, if and when that day actually comes to fruition it will be the end of blackjack as we know it, and it will result in everyone burning their books and software, and leaving all the boards.

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    I have seen them announce the specific person who was being countermeasured. To my surprise, it was not me. It was another guy who was randomly making big bets and lost quite a bit.

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    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    I wonder what would happen if a counter sat at every table, they two rounded every counter, and every table was hand shuffled. Would they cry uncle and give better pen to get money from ploppies, or would they take a terribly large hit to their profit just to spite the counters?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Would they cry uncle and give better pen to get money from ploppies, or would they take a terribly large hit to their profit just to spite the counters?
    They'd take the hit. They are of the mindset that nobody will beat them at their own game, even if it costs them. Smart, isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    I wonder what would happen if a counter sat at every table, they two rounded every counter, and every table was hand shuffled. Would they cry uncle and give better pen to get money from ploppies, or would they take a terribly large hit to their profit just to spite the counters?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I recently played at small store, mostly heads up at a high limit table. My win almost certainly demolished the typical days profit. Had I had company, the slowdown in hph in itself would have been a countermeasure. With an ASM game, I kinda sorta think that we are deluding ourselves in thinking that deck pen affects overall house profitability. This is a for sure at heads up, but only a possible factor to consider at slow crowded lower stakes games.

    In my neck of the woods, though I have seen lots of counters, there are few capable counters out there. In fact, quality is such that if it were my house, I'd let most of them play. I'd get em sooner or later.

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