Blackjack and Health Impacts (including Sleep)

[GreenHouse]

Hello the AP world.

I am an european player, i am a little bit less than 30 years old, and i am with now 100 K $ bankroll. I have been playing since two years. Good news are the money, and excitation linked to blackjack.

I have to be honest, before blackjack :
I still had inclination to be deprimed. I have made a deep depression 2 years before i start BJ, so i have to say i am not the best healty mental guy, a little bit instable emotionnaly, with not many interactions, not many friends, not many girlfriend, not a very satisfied and happy life. I am very interested in health, i am very serious about food and physical activities, in order to compensate for my unfavourable tendancy.

Before blackjack i had a very poor job. My results for IQ tests were typically 118, not exceptional or bad.I have a modest degree in mathematics, but i never have worked with it. If i stop BJ, i could do : mathematical teacher (bad paid because i am not fully recognized), do poor jobs, or take new degrees in informatics or another forming. So my professionnal situation is not famous, and i dont have right now very good opportunities. And BJ gave me a life.

But the places where i played had casinos starting at 8 pm and closing at 2-3 am.
This mean than i have to start sleeping at at least 3 am.

I switched time with BJ and free time ( usually 2-3 months each). Obviously i am very tired when playing, but is this only due tu bad sleep ? When i play, i also make a lot of road, i have to fight the mental tiredness, and i also have slept in bad and stressy places. So when i play i am very tired, and i can go on playing only with LOTS of coffee ( Are you also addicted to coffee ? ) which cause problems to sleep. So i have to accept a general tiredness, physical and mental.
Since 3 months i dont play and sleep normally, and i see i am good. I can make sports again very well, sleep well, see some friends sometimes, family, and i am not hurried. But i am missing blackjack a lot.

I start to get informations about sleep, i read this book than i recommand to you :
(https://www.amazon.fr/Sleep-You-Bett.../dp/145972352X Sleep and you, by Diane BOIVIN).
It seems than human body owns natural circadians rythms. It seems than going to the bed lately, disturbs these rythms and causes health problem ( even if you go every day at the same time to the bed and you sleep enough hours).
To the people interested, these links can help you : (https://www.quora.com/How-does-going...omeones-health and https://www.quora.com/I-sleep-a-lot-...thew-Cocking-1)

1) I would like to open this debate and to have feed back to AP, how the disturbing sleep impacts you. Those who plays full time and starts sleeping at 3 am, how are you ? Is it dangerous or very dangerous ? Lets talk also to the interactions impacts, the loneliness. How are you, you, AP ?

2) Have you general advises to me ? Do you know countries where i can play the day and not the night ? USA is good ? I have never been in your country.
I could also extend this thread, to the addiction to blackjack. I am seriously asking if blackjack is good or bad for me, am i just addicting to gamble or is this a good opportunity. Is Blackjack really good to get a fullfillment, or are we missing a lot of opportunities and a lot of good things.

This forum is very good, but its strange nobody talks very much about this ( health impact, addiction and fullfillment or not due to AP).

My question is, generally, is blackjack a good thing or not to us ? Are we just addicting gamblers ?
I am at an important age of my life and i have to choose, so your advices are very welcomed.
I like BJ but not the sacrifices linked...On another side, boredom is very dangerous.You can't have your cake and eat too ?

[seriousplayer]

If i stop BJ, i could do : mathematical teacher (bad paid because i am not fully recognized), do poor jobs, or take new degrees in informatics or another forming.

Many schools will require you to have a bachelor degree foe you to become a teacher. I don't know of any schools that would let you teach with a high school diploma. You mention you have a high school diploma and not degree. School have outrageous requirement and they pay less.

[GreenHouse]

Sorry this is maybe because of my poor english.
The degree i have needs three years after high school.
With that, i can teach.

[DSchles]

Where in France do you live? :-)

Don

[bjarg]

I have done some research on sleep in the distant past.

Of course you have.

[bjarg]

You're a mess.

Not sure why you say this.
Most (MOST) APs I know suffer both physically and mentally from what they do.
I can count with the fingers of one hand the number of healthy players I know.
Sleep disorders are very common among professional blackjack players due to many factors (travel, jet lag, time differences, losing streaks, unhealthy casino environment, bad eating habits etc).
Being a full time AP and living a healthy lifestyle is a very difficult challenge.
I think the OP is excellent and raises a very important topic for many.

[Tarzan]

I was just having this conversation with Flash the other day pertaining to loss of normal sleep patterns, eating patterns. There is an acclimation to the conditions of your environment and your typical working conditions. Do you recall the Bond villain that never slept? Envision a complete loss of any discernible sleep pattern, eating pattern (without the use of any drugs). If you came from a high-stress working environment that you had to operate long grueling hours on a lack of sleep long before you ever played blackjack, then playing blackjack becomes a cakewalk! Most people have to be to sleep at a certain time and eat at a certain time to be content and at their best, though. For instance, they will always have their dinner at precisely 4:30PM and if that doesn't happen they just fall apart at the seams and shit themselves, if they aren't tucked into bed by no later than 9:30PM they are irritable, etc.

Now imagine the opposite of that. Staying awake (naturally) for as long as you need to, with the ability to control the body's mechanisms that control fatigue or hunger to a great extent, able to eat or sleep whenever. If you are tired or hungry, you are unable to properly focus on the task at hand, so this is something to your advantage. Overall long range health impact could certainly be questionable depending on the individual, but I'm not a medical professional able to make any definitive assessment. I've kept unusual hours for many years and "noon" for me might be 3AM one week and 7PM the next. It's what I'm used to, what I've acclimated to.

[Freightman]

Not that I'm any model of glowing health, I've adopted some habits for Blackjack travel. Some may not measure up to what is construed as AP protocol.

-I stay in places that have some modicum of exercise equipment. Even a few minutes will help refresh.
-I now bring with me a Terra band (may be spelled differently), essentially a 5 foot long 6 inch wide elastic with resistance, for back stretch excercise. Used before bedtime.
-I like to find accommodation relatively central within my playing area. I will often take a nap mid day.
-I don't try to maximize playing hours, recognizing that playing while tired is -EV.
-fast food only when necessary. Like a good breakfast and prefer decent meals. Take food comps only where no ID is required.
-Players often regale us with superiority of grave yard shift. I avoid. It disturbs my body rythym, and will interfere with quality if okay during regular play hours.

I'm sure there are others.

[tomf23]

this is mostly from poker BUT-

sleep is so important. don't be penny wise pound foolish.
i've stayed in 5 star resorts and flea bag motels.i don't need anything fancy but make sure your bed is comfortable and it's quiet. i'm fine with a holiday inn for example and to me it's not worth the extra money for a 5 star place, but it well worth the extra money vs some shanty.

i used to play tired a lot. these days i almost never do. i had times after a long night sleep where i'd remember a hand or two i played and wondered wtf i was thinking.
your brain doesn't function right when you're tired.

last week i actually played while falling alseep at the table bc a drunk guy was just giving money away so my ev of being at that table was so high i just couldn't leave. my 6 year old niece could have won at this game. but unless the game is that good i get my sleep.


i also walk a lot.it's great excersize.
in vegas i've walked from the wynn to the aria many times. i do the aria to bellagio walk a lot. the fresh air is great and it's faster than taking a cab or uber most of the time anyway.

[Freightman]

The game has worth. But it is not worth losing sleep over and losing your health. I see my game. I play. If it's not my game. I move on. I've learned the two words "move on" are the most difficult to employ. Also, the most necessary.

It's really tough for me to get 3-4 days of constant good games. I still find EV in poorer games, and for me, it's generally a mix that produces an end result. A poor game game can turn into a good game, depending on factors. One factor, touted by many, including myself, is tolerance. Another, ignored by many, is the value of a great dealer in a poor pen game.

I enjoyed such a game(s)the other day. Getting rid of the ploppie agonizing over every minor loss, I had a heads up game(s) with a real fast dealer. Granted, I had fewer higher bet opportunities, but I had lots of marginal to medium bet opportunities. When you're motoring like no tomorrow, there's good money to be had.

[Freightman]

this is mostly from poker BUT-

sleep is so important. don't be penny wise pound foolish.
i've stayed in 5 star resorts and flea bag motels.i don't need anything fancy but make sure your bed is comfortable and it's quiet. i'm fine with a holiday inn for example and to me it's not worth the extra money for a 5 star place, but it well worth the extra money vs some shanty.

i used to play tired a lot. these days i almost never do. i had times after a long night sleep where i'd remember a hand or two i played and wondered wtf i was thinking.
your brain doesn't function right when you're tired.

last week i actually played while falling alseep at the table bc a drunk guy was just giving money away so my ev of being at that table was so high i just couldn't leave. my 6 year old niece could have won at this game. but unless the game is that good i get my sleep.


i also walk a lot.it's great excersize.
in vegas i've walked from the wynn to the aria many times. i do the aria to bellagio walk a lot. the fresh air is great and it's faster than taking a cab or uber most of the time anyway.

Good worthwhile comments

[21frogman]

I have made a deep depression 2 years before i start BJ, so i have to say i am not the best healty mental guy, a little bit instable emotionnaly, with not many interactions, not many friends, not many girlfriend, not a very satisfied and happy life.

GreenHouse, you may find some value and commiseration on this forum, but your persistent emotional problems appear serious enough to warrant professional guidance. Your concerns about "health impact, addiction and fulfillment" show that you have insight into what's going on in your life. Have you seen a psychiatrist or psychologist since your deep depression?

[FishBear]

lurker here,

This thread compelled me to sign in again because I can relate very well to OP on many different levels. I never thought I'd see someone express behavior I feel.

I
- have a degree,
- have proper training in programming,
- never had a job relating to the skill sets I've developed in my studies,
- am in my late 20s,
- feel like I'm more intelligent than most (however not as educated as I should be, because I wasted my college years gambling) in a typical environment, but probably not at genius level (never took an IQ test, but I'd modestly guesstimate ~120 since I'm master at chess and also naturally aced math/logic throughout grade school. There are a few people that WOW me and make me feel stupid tho, which leads me to assess that I am not a genius),
- very very introverted (I type more than I talk. obviously an exaggeration but to demonstrate a point),
- usually am well-liked by friends since I'm laid back,
- don't have many friends,
- have degenerate tendencies that gradually and significantly improved over the past decade (but nevertheless still there),
- play poker semi-professionally,

Like you, I'm sure I suffer from some sort of depression. I've been prescribed trazodone and bupropion a few years ago, but I maybe took like 20 pills total since I feel I'm badass and can handle/beat depression on my own. I am a prideful person and think I can accomplish/do things on my own without the help from others (eg. a doctor).

Well, life the past decade has sometimes been hell. A couple times a year (0, if I'm running above EV in terms of my will power), I would literally lay in bed for 2-12 weeks straight, numb myself with marijuana, movies/tv series, and/or some repetitive game like backgammon/tetris every waking moment (not because I want to, but just as a means to stall until I get tired), and sleep upwards to 16 hours (yes, 16, I'd feel so miserable I just go back to sleep after waking up OR force myself back to sleep) in a given day. I'd eat horribly, not brush/shower, just basically give zero damn about anything because I'd either feel like I'm a worthless miserable piece of shit or feel a sense of extreme hopelessness/purposeless. Since I only see from and feel from a sample size of 1, I am unsure if what I have is normal, slightly abnormal, abnormal, or extremely abnormal behavior. My hunch is these behaviors are abnormal and pretty severe, but not severe enough to be a special case on the wrong side of the bell curve. The internet has shown me that depression is an illness that affects a lot of ppl in first world countries (not sure if I got my facts right actually).

It sickens me on how much time I've wasted just numbing myself waiting for the next day. It truly sickens me how weak I am. It is also sad for me to think about the countless tens of thousands of hours down the drain, simply because I cannot "snap out of it". Sometimes I am unsure if I am just naturally lazy and just don't want to take on responsibility. If I were to guess, I'd say this is a part of my nature.

Anyhow, usually what happens is I somehow snap out of it, become motivated on something (almost always just one very narrow interest), and then become overly productive. I'd feel extremely guilty for the time I've wasted and try my damn hardest to make up for them. When I am overly productive, I'd work on whatever interest it is I have non-stop, averaging maybe 4-8 hours of sleep a day (if I do sleep), 5-7 times a week.

I really want to break this depression cycle. There's been many times where I feel like I've finally conquered depression due to not feeling depressed for an extended period (1+ year), only then to be struck by depression again, usually due to some sort of self-inflicted stress or an extended break (innocent self-reward at first as a way to treat myself, only then to lead to depression after a few weeks).

I cannot break the habit (never really tried, since I don't want to) of NOT SLEEPING from time to time. My educated guess is this is just preference and not a symptom from depression. I've had horrible sleep schedule since high school (pulled so many all-nighters for no good reason). Perhaps poor sleep leads to depression? Also I still am not sure if I accept the fact that I a) have depression and b) depression is a real illness, because I feel like it's all mental and all within my control. I live a lifestyle where I currently do not have to worry about money, food, shelter, etc. I've read tons of articles saying what I have is depression, but I still am finding it really hard to accept that it isn't within my control. I sometimes feel like I exaggerate my symptoms just to seek attention. I just don't understand why sometimes I do the opposite of what logic dictates, simply because I feel miserable. I really can't explain it, because I know I know better. It makes me feel like a terrible person, which I think I am, BUT then again, the internet says none of this is my fault since I lack willpower. I mean, I think it is my fault? I want to take on responsibility for my own action and not blame depression for every negative thing...

Anyways, you aren't alone. Perhaps the AP world attracts depressed people.

Also, thanks for posting and best of luck with blackjack and depression. I'm sure blackjack will be easy as long as you can improve ur discipline (and perhaps for others, it's best to just give up since the tuition of discipline is too high or maybe non-existence). Gave me a lot to think about...