Lucky Ladies win = WG2 IRS report?

**Gronbog** · 01-13-2018, 08:45 AM

Thanks. I missed the part about 300 to 1.

**ShipTheCookies** · 01-13-2018, 08:50 AM

Apparently this particular Indian casino did too!

At least I was paid the right amount and had no issues cashing out.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 01-13-2018, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

"if paid in chips, why should this be an an instantly taxable win?"

It is a side-bet, and if you ask, you'll be told that it is treated as a slot machine "Jackpot."

If you "cash" in a Poker Tournament, it too is a taxable event, if the amount exceeds $5,000.

**ShipTheCookies** · 01-13-2018, 09:19 AM

Not true. Every other casino will tax you on a royal at UTH. Side bets don't matter.

Get a royal on Let it Ride and you'll be taxed whether you play a side bet or not.

**ShipTheCookies** · 01-13-2018, 10:33 AM

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...uwXJmDF6q_0C19

"Reportable Gambling Winnings
Report gambling winnings on Form W-2G if:
1. The winnings (not reduced by the wager) are $1,200 or
more from a bingo game or slot machine,
2. The winnings (reduced by the wager) are $1,500 or more
from a keno game,
3. The winnings (reduced by the wager or buy-in) are more
than $5,000 from a poker tournament,
4. The winnings (except winnings from bingo, slot machines,
keno, and poker tournaments) reduced, at the option of the
payer, by the wager are:
a. $600 or more, and
b. At least 300 times the amount of the wager, or
5. The winnings are subject to federal income tax
withholding (either regular gambling withholding or backup
withholding)."

Nothing from the IRS stating that only side bets are subject to the "300 to 1, $600+" rule.

**ShipTheCookies** · 01-13-2018, 10:36 AM

You'll hear about high stakes pros at some of these games folding possible royals and other hands that might initiate paperwork. Grosjean has even commented on doing this.

**Joe Mama** · 01-13-2018, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Three

Like I already said, I apologize for my ignorance. This does explain that I got a W2G when I wasn't supposed to because the ratio of winnings to bet was less than 300:1. I will know better next time I win the top payout. You expect to win it about every half million hands. I have hit it once a year. I play almost 1000 hours per year and 400 hands per hour so I am hitting it at just over expectation.

If you are reporting gambling income correctly (winnings less losses deducted, or Schedule C net gambling income) it does not really matter whether you get W2Gs or not.

**Yoshi's Coatails** · 01-13-2018, 06:11 PM

The Casino submits the form to the IRS so I suppose I have to as it will be treated as normal income. Would have prefered to pay the taxes off the payout.

**txlouder** · 10-10-2018, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by ShipTheCookies

Not true. Every other casino will tax you on a royal at UTH. Side bets don't matter.

Get a royal on Let it Ride and you'll be taxed whether you play a side bet or not.

Actually, a not-so-small point: In UTH you are required to bet equal amounts on the Ante and Blind. And, to get any payoff at all, you are required to bet at least an equal amount on the Play. So while a royal pays 500 to 1 on the Blind, the Ante and Play bets are payed off only at even money. So the payoff on the total (required) wager is way less than the 300 to 1 threshold for a W2G. No W2G. In my opinion.

**ShipTheCookies** · 10-10-2018, 03:03 PM

Your opinion doesn't matter. The fact is, they are 3 separate bets. The 500-1 royal payoff is subject to tax.

**Three** · 10-10-2018, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by ShipTheCookies

Your opinion doesn't matter. The fact is, they are 3 separate bets. The 500-1 royal payoff is subject to tax.

+1

The requirement of a W2G is for the ratio of a side bet payoff. The only factor that matter is how much you are paid in relation to the side bet you made.

**txlouder** · 10-10-2018, 04:26 PM

ShipTheCookies, it breaks my heart to hear that my opinion doesn't matter *to you*. I can assure you that my opinion will be heard if and when I hit that royal and the talk turns to tax forms. And I'll note that two posters in this thread -- one of whom is you -- report having witnessed a UTH royal payoff without any ensuing W2G. I've witnessed a royal or two in UTH. Never have I seen a W2G generated.

And your comment -- also in this thread -- that you've heard that the high stakes sharps make non-optimal plays to avoid generating paperwork, is somewhat credible. However, I think it likely that the paperwork being avoided in those cases is either a CTR, or a W2G from the progressive bet, played for cover...

--TX

**txlouder** · 10-10-2018, 04:28 PM

Three sez: "The requirement of a W2G is for the ratio of a side bet payoff."

Yes, but as I explained above, the Blind is not a side bet. It's one half of the initial main bet.

--TX