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Thread: Rigging automatic shuffler machines

  1. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post

    For ASMmod3, are you just basing this information in your memory, or did you actually record the results of hundreds of shoes and test for statistical significance?
    Starting from beginning of 2017, I recorded the ASM and hand-shuffled results separately. While hand-shuffled results are about the same compared to the past 30 year norm, I hardly made even on ASM tables. Now I can easily see the bizarre, peculiar sequence from ASM. The central strategy is to make key card eight and nine stick together. If ASM is in beast mode, you will see 80% of cards are eight or nine in a sequence of about 13-16 cards. Then 80% of cards are face cards in a sequence of about 13-16 cards. The remaining card sequence thus have less mid cards and face cards, so it is easier for dealer not to bust. Normally when it happened, a six deck shoe has two mid card clumps and two face card clumps. A shoe is like this:

    [small card clump][mid card clump1][small card clump][face card clump1][small card clump][mid card clump2][small card clump][face card clump2][small card clump]

  2. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    He doesn't.
    I don't. But I have a working theory that is consistent with my long time observations.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I guarantee T3 that I am just a regular AP, not an employee of or a consultant to any casino. Also people that disagree with my theory are those who no longer or seldom play at casinos recently. I talked to people who still play, either AP or Basic Strategy players. Most of them are in my camp. When playing ASM table, clumping are worse than hand shuffled tables. This started from about three years ago. I think T3 get lucky because his proprietary counting system side count ace and two in a group. It helps him when ASM tries to steer cards into three groups (small cards, mid 8/9 cards and face cards.)
    I have more trouble with clumping on the hand shuffled games. Admittedly I don't get to play hand shuffles much. But I do have a couple places that hand shuffle. I usually play where I do well and don't play much where I struggle to win so I don't hit the hand shuffles much. The one place has a shuffle that isn't worth tracking and the other place the dealers have no consistent method of shuffling.

  4. #14


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    There is a pattern, there will be an exploit. I have seen at least three AP have their proprietary exploits working at this particular table. Their livelihood may depend on it so I never want to post information on particular name. What changed now? ASMmod3 is at least four year old scheme. I saw the casino has recently deployed ASMmod4 to ASM tables in smoking section, so this should end soon. So I can elaborate it. ASMmod4 can twist around and has multiple segments. But that is another story.

    ASMmod3 is one segmental scheme. That means, it only has one face card clump and one mid-card clump. For it to work, there are three required elements:

    1. For 6D, there is a face card clump in the top deck. There is a mid-card clump in the bottom deck, specifically the bottom half deck (the last 26 cards in the bottom).

    2. Players cannot place the cut card in the top deck or the bottom deck. He can place the cut card in the middle four decks.

    3. Casinos spread the jingle/slogan, "Cut it thin to win, cut it deep to weep."

    According to my observations, almost all ploppies fall to the trap and cut it thin. Either one deck or even less from the top. Before the cut card, the composition of the shoe is

    [top deck: face card clump][center 4.5 decks: random cards with less face/eight/nine cards][bottom 0.5 deck: mid card clump]

    Assuming ploppes did what the casinos want them to do and cut one deck from the top, they will play the shoes with most A/2/3/4/5/6/7 and less 8/9/T. I remembered nights that the table full of ploppies, everyone cut one deck from the top. Dealers kept making hands because the shoe lacked of 8/9/face cards. All 9/10/11 doubles got no desired cards. Ploppies complained that they never see tables so cold. But the truth is that they make higher ranked cards fall behind the cut card because their action. This scheme particular makes counters lose big, because basically the true count will rise from the start to end albeit a little fluctuation because small cards outnumber face cards.

  5. #15


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    I need to modify my statement. For any shoe that is not cut from one deck from the top, you will see the mid-card clump 100% of the times EVERY SHOE. For any shoe that is cut from one deck from the top, you will not see the mid-card clump because that clump falls behind the cut card.

    Come on. This is verifiable. Anyone going to Pittsburgh in the near future?

  6. #16
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    If you know where all the cards are before the cut card is put in you know where they are when the dealing starts and where to cut to put them where you want. I couldn't think of an easier way to beat the crap out of a casino without even counting. Word would spread and the casinos would be losing money faster than they did to any counters. Playing ASM's would be the among strongest forms of AP play. And they couldn't bar you for it. I haven't seen this happening so I call total BS from people that haven't enough skills to win and must find someone or something to blame.

  7. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    If you know where all the cards are before the cut card is put in you know where they are when the dealing starts and where to cut to put them where you want. I couldn't think of an easier way to beat the crap out of a casino without even counting. Word would spread and the casinos would be losing money faster than they did to any counters. Playing ASM's would be the among strongest forms of AP play. And they couldn't bar you for it. I haven't seen this happening so I call total BS from people that haven't enough skills to win and must find someone or something to blame.
    There was this one local store. Some years back, I had a streak of not being able to beat their 5-10 tables. Got over that soon enough. Crushed them at the 25 table. All were asm. No beast mode. I can play any game except......

  8. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    If you know where all the cards are before the cut card is put in you know where they are when the dealing starts and where to cut to put them where you want. I couldn't think of an easier way to beat the crap out of a casino without even counting. Word would spread and the casinos would be losing money faster than they did to any counters. Playing ASM's would be the among strongest forms of AP play. And they couldn't bar you for it. I haven't seen this happening so I call total BS from people that haven't enough skills to win and must find someone or something to blame.
    I have only seen three people playing the pattern while thousands of basic strategy players and AP stick to their belief. And even ploppies who mimic the dealers outplay BS players and traditional counters at this table. This tells me how hard to convince people who can not think outside of the box.

  9. #19


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    From my long time observation
    Even the disadvantage forum should not tolerate this.
    Norm, please don't make a freak show of your forum.
    G Man

  10. #20
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Thread closed.
    "It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus

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