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Thread: Rigging automatic shuffler machines

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    Rigging automatic shuffler machines

    Is it possible for an automatic shuffling machine to arrange the cards in some kind of diabolical way that would be detrimental for the gambler?

    This is not a big concern in blackjack because the order of the cards can easily be messed up. But in other games the order of the cards can be pretty static. Are the machines capable of this, and if so, would it be illegal in all 50 states?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Is it possible for an automatic shuffling machine to arrange the cards in some kind of diabolical way that would be detrimental for the gambler?

    This is not a big concern in blackjack because the order of the cards can easily be messed up. But in other games the order of the cards can be pretty static. Are the machines capable of this, and if so, would it be illegal in all 50 states?
    Technology can do it. The risk reward makes it extraordinarily highly unlikely. After all, the house has the edge to begin with. For a different opinion, BJGenius may entertain us with his version if conspiracy theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    Is it possible for an automatic shuffling machine to arrange the cards in some kind of diabolical way that would be detrimental for the gambler?

    This is not a big concern in blackjack because the order of the cards can easily be messed up. But in other games the order of the cards can be pretty static. Are the machines capable of this, and if so, would it be illegal in all 50 states?
    From my long time observation, ASMmod3 (the one with mono monitor/line commander only) puts face cards, eight's, nine's on both ends (top 1 deck and bottom 1 deck) or just one end (top or bottom). AP can exploit the sequence against ASMmod3 because you can know where the higher ranked cards are located. (Also the casino will ask players not to cut into the top or bottom deck.)

    The newer ASMmod4 (the one with colored graphic interface, you have to sit on the first base to see which model ASM is) is more complicate. Basically it divides six decks into two three-decks. Each three-decks has its own small card clump, mid card clump (8 and 9) and face card clump. It is very hard to find a way to exploit the sequence. Because basically you are playing two shoes, 3 decks each, without knowing the separate point is, you can keep getting small cards when TC is very high, getting face cards when TC is very negative.

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    BJGenius, how do you know this? What source do you have that told you ASMmod4 divides six decks into two three decks?

    For ASMmod3, are you just basing this information in your memory, or did you actually record the results of hundreds of shoes and test for statistical significance?

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    BJGenius, how do you know this? What source do you have that told you ASMmod4 divides six decks into two three decks?
    Once I sat at a low chair and ASM had a red light. The pit boss came to check the cards from ASM. It is just less than 5 minutes after ASM began to shuffle. I am surprised to learn that phase 1 of shuffling is to restore the cards to the sequence by suit and rank. The first 20 cards are club ace, two, three, four, five, six, etc, then diamond ace, two, three, four, five, six, etc. The pit boss saw I was watching closely, so he turned the cards over. But I can still see them because I sat at a low chair. The whole six decks were restored to the original form. It is unnecessary to restore the cards to the sequence by rank and suit unless the ASM wants to treat the six deck as two mini shoes.

    Also unlike playing a hand shuffled game, my experience with ASMmod4 is that RC can jump from -40 to +20 in very few hands. or drop from +40 to -20. One of the logical theory is that I crossed the separation point from a three deck to another three deck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    BJGenius, how do you know this?
    He doesn't.
    "It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows." -Epictetus

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    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    BJGenius, how do you know this? What source do you have that told you ASMmod4 divides six decks into two three decks?

    For ASMmod3, are you just basing this information in your memory, or did you actually record the results of hundreds of shoes and test for statistical significance?
    Beta - you do not want to go down this path. All of BJGenius posts are in the Disadvantage forum for a reason.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    All of BJGenius posts are in the Disadvantage forum for a reason.
    I am convinced the Genius works for the casonos spreading disinformation to discourage AP's. He has written that doing this is legal because it doesn't change the odds of the game.Why would he do that? The biggest idiot in the world could see if any deck compositions are more or less likely than others it changes the odds of the game. The answer is he is lying to ward AP's off the casinos he works at or consults with, or he is the dumbest man to have ever lived. Everyone can make up their own minds. I obviously picked the former. But I could be wrong.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    The whole six decks were restored to the original form.
    I remember seeing this in the USPTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I am convinced the Genius works for the casonos spreading disinformation to discourage AP's. He has written that doing this is legal because it doesn't change the odds of the game.Why would he do that? The biggest idiot in the world could see if any deck compositions are more or less likely than others it changes the odds of the game. The answer is he is lying to ward AP's off the casinos he works at or consults with, or he is the dumbest man to have ever lived. Everyone can make up their own minds. I obviously picked the former. But I could be wrong.
    I guarantee T3 that I am just a regular AP, not an employee of or a consultant to any casino. Also people that disagree with my theory are those who no longer or seldom play at casinos recently. I talked to people who still play, either AP or Basic Strategy players. Most of them are in my camp. When playing ASM table, clumping are worse than hand shuffled tables. This started from about three years ago. I think T3 get lucky because his proprietary counting system side count ace and two in a group. It helps him when ASM tries to steer cards into three groups (small cards, mid 8/9 cards and face cards.)

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