Table Hold and LS

[ZenMaster_Flash]

The two CT casino have identical rules. Both offer Late Surrender.
The only difference is that Foxwoods offers excellent penetration
while Mohegan Sun offers the worst penetration imaginable.

There are two points to make. The "hold" never varies but very
slightly in month-to-month comparison every year. Nor does pen'
have an effect. Late Surrender does have a great effect!

At 8.01% the combined Connecticut "Hold" is MUCH lower than the
standard > 12% seen in most markets like A.C. / Las Vegas / etc.

See below:

[DSchles]

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples, when you compare CT to AC and LV. While it's possible that LS lowers the
CT hold, most believe that LS actually can help hold because of how poorly people use it.

You need just the hold from the other venues for games with exactly the same rules as CT. For example, if you include all the 6:5 from LV, the result of a higher hold would be obvious.

Don

[ferenc11]

Mr.Zen! Have you ever been employed by a casino?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Apples to Apples" suggests what I am trying to explain ...

The games have Late Surrender in CT and otherwise hardly
different in any way that I can see.

Therefore it is "Apples to Oranges" as in any CONTROLLED study.
The 'missing variable' is Late Surrender (and better penetration)

[BoSox]

At 8.01% the combined Connecticut "Hold" is MUCH lower than the
standard > 12% seen in most markets like A.C. / Las Vegas / etc.

For all intent, I would not consider the Connecticut casinos as family destination resorts. Subsequently, their customer base on average is slightly more knowledgeable than those who visit A.C. / Las Vegas.

[ZeeBabar]

For all intent, I would not consider the Connecticut casinos as family destination resorts. Subsequently, their customer base on average is slightly more knowledgeable than those who visit A.C. / Las Vegas.

Great point!

[ZenMaster_Flash]

While certainly no ploppy is worse than the L. V. tourist ploppy,

but a 50% greater hold?

[paymypush]

All Mohegan Sun blackjack is 6 deck S17 with unlimited pair splitting except aces. Splitting 10s is not allowed.

Foxwoods' main floors are 8 deck H17. Pairs split to 4 hands. The Newport room and the other high limit rooms have 6 deck S17.

[BoSox]

While certainly no ploppy is worse than the L. V. tourist ploppy,

but a 50% greater hold?

Dealers for the most part in Connecticut are so slowwwwwwwwwwww in dealing the cards. I think it is reflective of management, who it always seemed are far too comfortable in their positions. All because of Federal Laws that favor Native American Sovereign Nations, pertaining to debt litigation. Debt holders are only hopeful to just keep receiving the interest payments, never mind the principle.

[cc12b]

Forgive my ignorance but what is table hold and how it effect players' edge?

[RS]

Hold is Profit/Drop.

So if there is a total of $10,000 in the cash box and the table profits $2,750, then the hold is 27.5% (2750/10000). It can also be negative, of course, if the table loses. Or it can be greater than a 100% hold, because there could be $5,000 in buy ins in the cash box, those players lose $1,000 (so far, profit is $1,000), then someone else comes over with $20k in chips, dumps it all. Now the table's profit is $21k with a $5k drop, so the hold is $21k/$5k = 420%.

Granted, in the long run, it can/will even out. But, that isn't to say there may exist certain tendencies by players to "manipulate" the hold, like if one table is more likely to get bigger buy-ins and the other is more likely to get more people who bring chips to the table.


It doesn't effect the player's edge.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Yes the BJ games "on the floor" differ. At Foxwoods, the High Limit Room
entitled the Newport Room has $50 minimums and far better penetration
than anything available at Mohegan Sun. For academic interest, Foxwoods
has a High Limit room, where I have never set foot. Minimums at BJ I am
told, are $500. I understand that a $500,000 credit line is required for entry.

[ferenc11]

WOW, 500,000!
Do you know anyone who could put that money down up front?