Card Counting Spanish 21

[MercySakesAlive]

Is it possible to successfully card count a Spanish 21 game?

What count system would one use?

[Freightman]

Is it possible to successfully card count a Spanish 21 game?

What count system would one use?

Yes, I simply adopt a halves variation, but theyre specialty counts more suited.

[Gronbog]

For a HiLo approach, see Katarina Walker's book.

[Freightman]

For a HiLo approach, see Katarina Walker's book.

A classic work. My halves variation is based on it.

[MercySakesAlive]

cool, I'd like to check out katarina's book. I wonder if there exists any information on counting Spanish 21 using KO.

[paymypush]

cool, I'd like to check out katarina's book. I wonder if there exists any information on counting Spanish 21 using KO.

Katarina, may she rest in peace, has some posts on this forum. If you can find them, they should be interesting. She may have posted as a guest since her name doesn't appear on the community list.

[Fire Walker]

The volatility is too much for most AP's to handle. BJ volatility is tame by comparison.

+1.
Demonic Variance.
Play for small stakes if you will try and play it with a level 1, non-side-counted system.

[Phoebe]

cool, I'd like to check out katarina's book. I wonder if there exists any information on counting Spanish 21 using KO.

KO is inapplicable.
1) EoR of 7 is near zero
2) Count become too unbalanced by 8 per deck.

[Bushie]

Add the 9 as a high card tagged -1. You rarely hit any 12's, hit most stiffs against the 2, and virtually never take insurance. These are the times the nine plays as a a helpful dealer card (low card) but the decision is usually automatic (index plays that are reached very rarely). So the nine play almost the same as a T for almost all the deviations you will actually do. The nines value for playing and allowing one more high card rank to make up for the loss of the 10 rank far outweighs the very small amount of time there is a cost to counting the nine.

I was going to open a new thread, but since this is here I might as well ask.

Is there much point side-counting aces in 8D H17 SP21/Pontoon? The EoR of aces is much lower than S17 and I'm thinking that it's probably just not worth the effort.

I was formulating a balanced level 2 count with ASC as follows (2-K):

1 1 2 2 1 0 0 1 2 2 2

Or would an ace reckoned level 2 be more efficient? And if so, what tags would I change to balance the count?

[Bushie]

+1.
Demonic Variance.
Play for small stakes if you will try and play it with a level 1, non-side-counted system.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't using a level 2 or 3 count with side counts reduce variance significantly? You're saying that it has demonic variance, but then recommend a system that has significantly worse variance than other counts that are better suited to SP21.

[stopgambling]

Variance is not that high when compare to some carny games . It only seemed more volatile when compare to bj . Demonic variance is an exaggeration. Dragon and Uth is way higher . Even ocp is higher and feels so cause the inevitable error at times.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"would[/COLOR] an ace reckoned level 2 be more efficient?
... what tags would I change to balance the count?"

An Ace Reckoned Count cannot be efficient.
While the Ace needs to be side-counted as +/- 5 in a
S 17 game, +/-3 suffices nicely in a H17 game.
As you can guess from above, Aces are crucial in Spanish21.
The closest that one can get for an Ace Reckoned H17
game is ... 1 2 3 3 0 0 -2 -3
Yes, that is a Level 3 Count but it is somewhat weak.
If you must ... use a Level 2 Count ... 1 1 2 2 2 1 0 0 -1 -2 -2
Note: that a Level 2 Count is decidedly weak and ill-advised.
Side Counted Aces are very important in Spanish21 ...
far more so than it is in blackjack.
Note: the E.O.R. for 8's in Spanish21 is not zero. It is higher than the 9!
We do not tag it as doing so would reduce P.E. since it acts as a low card.
Spanish21 is a very complex game compared to blackjack and simplifying it is
a very poor idea.

[All Clear]

In the Atlantic City vicinity, where the Spanish 21 dealer stands on a soft 17, the house edge is lower than that in blackjack (even S17 blackjack games), the dealer errors are higher than what is found in blackjack, the comp rate (per a given average bet for a given amount of time) is higher than blackjack....

While I am not a full-time AP, when I do count cards, it is now exclusively in Spanish 21, as opposed to blackjack. I use a pretty complicated count, that includes a level 3 ace side-count, which was simulated to my satisfaction. It includes lots of index numbers that differ based on how many cards I have, and 6-7-8 draws. There are stronger counts available as well (which I wish I knew). The game is more complicated, and takes more time to practice and learn.