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Thread: Level 1 count versus Level 2 count

  1. #1


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    Level 1 count versus Level 2 count

    While doing some SIMS today I noticed that when comparing the Red 7 count to the Hi Opt 2 count, HiOpt2 only narrowly edges out the Red 7. I was under the assumption that a level 2 count was better than a level one count. I have been using a Level 1 count for 7 years now and I have had great success with it. Lately I have been thinking of going to HiOpt2 or the Zen count but with little advantage, I am rethinking it. Any thoughts? I usually play shoe games with 75-85% pen, 1-8 spread, S17, DAS LS and I usually play 2 hands in a play-all situation. I have a replenishable BR so ROR isn't that big of concern?

  2. #2


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    Make sure your sims include an ace side count on hi opt 2. Hi opt without asc is useless. With it, it is powerful. Use the newly invented ball method for tracking aces.

    Think about halves. Highly efficient, powerful and does need a sidecount, though it can easily be incorporated.

  3. #3


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    Freightman, with the ASC your win rate increases by about 10% Do you think this is really worth it given the increased errors that may result?
    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Make sure your sims include an ace side count on hi opt 2. Hi opt without asc is useless. With it, it is powerful. Use the newly invented ball method for tracking aces.

    Think about halves. Highly efficient, powerful and does need a sidecount, though it can easily be incorporated.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by winnawinna View Post
    Freightman, with the ASC your win rate increases by about 10% Do you think this is really worth it given the increased errors that may result?
    10%
    Is it that much?
    Might do it all the time

    Just keep practicing till you don't make errors. Count first, then asc. Use the new ball method for asc.

  5. #5


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    Here we go again.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by winnawinna View Post
    While doing some SIMS today I noticed that when comparing the Red 7 count to the Hi Opt 2 count, HiOpt2 only narrowly edges out the Red 7. I was under the assumption that a level 2 count was better than a level one count. I have been using a Level 1 count for 7 years now and I have had great success with it. Lately I have been thinking of going to HiOpt2 or the Zen count but with little advantage, I am rethinking it. Any thoughts? I usually play shoe games with 75-85% pen, 1-8 spread, S17, DAS LS and I usually play 2 hands in a play-all situation. I have a replenishable BR so ROR isn't that big of concern?
    You might want to consider BRH-0 which is similar to Red 7. BRH-0-lite is the same as Red 7.

  7. #7


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    enlighten me...

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Here we go again.

    Method to the madness. Thought you would have figured it out by now. Should be done in a day or so.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by winnawinna View Post
    enlighten me...
    A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 T
    Brh-0 -2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +1 0 0 -2

    See if that makes a difference comparing it to red 7.

  10. #10


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    3 said
    "Red7 is a level 2 count. It approximates counting the 7 as a half tag which is a level 2 count"

    I'm no expert, but red 7 is counted, black 7 is not. Reverse it, you can call it the black 7. Regardless, the rag is the tag, and the red 7 tag equals the 6,5 etc - ergo, is it not level 1. After all, you don't calculate fractions.

  11. #11


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    The Red 7 count is a level one count according to Snyder. You can count all sevens as .5 as well. Perhaps that’s why threee means. That actually is better by a small fraction. You can also “true edge” the count. I’ve been using this system for several years now and I like its ease of use. I do however want to go up to the HIOPT2.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Use the new ball method for asc.
    Please describe & provide citation for the ball method for asc. Thanks.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21frogman View Post
    Please describe & provide citation for the ball method for asc. Thanks.
    See Hi Opt 2 thread - below us a copy paste from post 55 or 57, somewhere in there.


    Quote Originally Posted by shake View Post
    I figured i would use chips or something to keep track of the ASC so that wouldnt take much effort.

    Oh brother, talk about a giveaway. If you must use chips, then use 1.00 and .50 chips shuffling. Or, use the ball method.

    Place bet right hand. Left hand in pocket. First ace put 1 finger on left nut, 2nd ace 2 fingers, up to 4 fingers, then switch hands. After 8 aces, start shuffling chips. You don't need holes in your pockets to make this work. If anyone asks you what you're doing, just play coy.

    Haven't tried it myself - seems to have some merit.

    Needs some Beta testing - any volunteers?

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