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Thread: First year counting

  1. #1


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    First year counting

    Hi everyone! I've almost completed my first year of counting.. Thank you all for the advice you've given me so far. In about a year, I've nearly doubled my bankroll. I'm back for more advice/ opinions. Here's my updated status and question:

    BR: $18,000
    Count: complete zen, first 20 indices

    I'm wondering about my game selections, and whether I would benefit from traveling. My job allows me to travel on 3-6 month contracts nationwide, or stay local. Where I'm at now my games (mostly) look like this:

    -6 or 8 decks
    - h17, das, rsa 4x, no surrender
    - 85-90% pen depending on dealer


    Like I said, I've been playing these all year and have made a bit of a profit off of them. Would I be better off accepting work somewhere that allows me to play double deck or single deck blackjack? I ask because I was reading the site blackjackinfo.com and a page on there mentions that even if you only play a few double deck games per year, it's better than slugging it out at 6 deck games all the time. Is there truth to that? Even though the double deck games I've seen are all only 50-60% pen? How much pen is sufficient on single and double deck? Secondly, if that's the case should I stick with zen count for those games or learn a count that is specific to those games like ho2 asc? Thanks for any insight you can offer, I hope everyone's been having a good year.

  2. #2


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    That 85-90% pen, preferably on 6 deck, makes up for a lot of other house transgressions. Orivuded heat is not a factor, knock yourself out.

    Reduce pen to 75%, start looking for alternatives. Add surrender back into the mix, the game is playable, provided bankroll can handle ramp - or - you can Wong in and out. Assumes double any 2.

  3. #3


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    That 85-90% pen, preferably on 6 deck, is Good . zen is a fine count .unless you have 75% plus dd then maybe you would want to learn HI opt 2 but you are not gonna find a lot of 75% plus DD

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    Ok, so I'm taking that to mean that zen performs similarly to ho2 up to 75% pen? That's good news, less work for me. You're right, I don't see a lot of those games around. What about playing single or double deck games with zen? Should I be looking for those over the 6/8 deck games available near me? There are plenty of DD games near here but they are mostly 60% pen like I said. ~.5 house edge on the rules.

  5. #5


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    Stick with Zen imo. I use Zen for both shoes and pitch. My results have been fine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenarrowpath View Post
    Ok, so I'm taking that to mean that zen performs similarly to ho2 up to 75% pen? That's good news, less work for me. You're right, I don't see a lot of those games around. What about playing single or double deck games with zen? Should I be looking for those over the 6/8 deck games available near me? There are plenty of DD games near here but they are mostly 60% pen like I said. ~.5 house edge on the rules.
    60% DD 1-6 spread heads up is a fine game. Witn one other player is also OK. With a full table not so much.

  7. #7


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    Zen performs very well, it adds power for both 6D and pitch games. Easy to execute with no side count.

    60% pen is OK on DD, I like to see more but 60% is certainly playable. Depends on rules as well, I like to see at least Da2 and DAS. There are lots of places who like to nerf their DD with d9,10,11 sort of rules which cripples the game greatly( but this can be overcome with deep pen.)

    If you dont have the software I would advise getting it, you can mess with the pen and rules on your games and get a good feel on where you are at with EV and score etc...

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    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybond007 View Post
    Zen performs very well, it adds power for both 6D and pitch games. Easy to execute with no side count.

    60% pen is OK on DD, I like to see more but 60% is certainly playable. Depends on rules as well, I like to see at least Da2 and DAS. There are lots of places who like to nerf their DD with d9,10,11 sort of rules which cripples the game greatly( but this can be overcome with deep pen.)

    If you dont have the software I would advise getting it, you can mess with the pen and rules on your games and get a good feel on where you are at with EV and score etc...
    There is one store I play D9,D10,D11 because they make up for losing soft doubles (and doubling 8s) with decent pen and S17.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    There is one store I play D9,D10,D11 because they make up for losing soft doubles (and doubling 8s) with decent pen and S17.
    Deep pen alleviates the transgressions of shitty rules.

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