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Thread: Halves Indexes Looking for Early Surrender Indexes

  1. #1


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    Halves Indexes Looking for Early Surrender Indexes

    Hi,
    I use mainly Hi Lo, but sometimes when i can only play in tables with some people and slow and hard schuffle, i can use double halves (tag=1,2,2,3,2,1,0,-1,-2,-2). I do this for avoiding boredom also.
    I have all indexes from grosjean's book (beyond counting) though i dont have early surrender for dealer's ace or ten.
    Also Grosjean doesnt give Risk Averses indexes so i am also interested for every indexes, not only surrender but surrender is more important.

    Anyone can help me ? ( To be fair i am thinking especially to the great and wonderful Gramazeka, BTW underestimated in this board from my modest point of view).

    I am also interested for full indexes for Revere Point Count ( Tag= 1,2,2,2,2,1,0,0,-2,-2) for full indices for early surrender and other decisions.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-15-2017 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHouse View Post
    Hi,
    I use mainly Hi Lo, but sometimes when i can only play in tables with some people and slow and hard schuffle, i can use double halves (tag=1,2,2,3,2,1,0,-1,-2,-2). I do this for avoiding boredom also.
    I have all indexes from grosjean's book (beyond counting) though i dont have early surrender for dealer's ace or ten.
    Also Grosjean doesnt give Risk Averses indexes so i am also interested for every indexes, not only surrender but surrender is more important.

    Anyone can help me ? ( To be fair i am thinking especially to the great and wonderful Gramazeka, BTW underestimated in this board from my modest point of view).

    I am also interested for full indexes for Revere Point Count ( Tag= 1,2,2,2,2,1,0,0,-2,-2) for full indices for early surrender and other decisions.
    Wings Prifessional Blackjack hi lo, halves early and late surrender indexes
    Around page 90.

  3. #3


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    Thank you freightman, this is a starting point.
    Nevertheless, Wongs uses a different system ( its simple halves with tags like 1.5 and 0.5 etc) so in approximation i should double these indices which should be not very precise. Also the book is a little bit old and didnt use modern computers, plus Wongs didnt uses calculation TC with flooring.
    So i am still interested in others sources of informations.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHouse View Post
    Thank you freightman, this is a starting point.
    Nevertheless, Wongs uses a different system ( its simple halves with tags like 1.5 and 0.5 etc) so in approximation i should double these indices which should be not very precise. Also the book is a little bit old and didnt use modern computers, plus Wongs didnt uses calculation TC with flooring.
    So i am still interested in others sources of informations.
    You've doubled the tags.
    Either divide by 2 to get the fractional count, or keep the doubled count and double the indexes.

    That being said, I use the actual fractions and have no issues. Further, the Wong indexes work perfectly fine, and your question suggests that you're likely, though not necessarily, fairly new.

    Your comments, though technically correct, will have little, if any difference. Newer players especially seem to think that it is crucial to be exact to the nth degree. This kind of thought process limits creative and artistic play, creating somewhat if a robotic approach. Do yourself a favour and try not to be a robot.

  5. #5


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    I read this forum since a lot of time also i havent participated, dont be misguided by my number of posts.

    I think i have a certain background of the AP world. I am sceptical about the utilisation of creative and artistic, for me an AP activity is more about using and choosing good methods, and finding the opportunities. Most AP players wont create anything. Straight count is a robot activity. Doing a robot activity doesnt mean you can not think outside the box when you leave the table .
    Also i understand the idea defended by your post, a AP should very have a fully background of all the aspects of the job. You have to do more than only having the good indexes and making no errors with Running Count.

    I agree that not having the "good" indices wont hurt you so much, but why give up some EV once you can have the good numbers ? Plus i think with surrender and especially early surrender, precise indexes can make a little bit of difference.

  6. #6


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "You've doubled the tags.
    Either divide by 2 to get the fractional count, or keep the doubled count and double the indexes."

    How about calculating the TC by dividing by half decks, as is the case for the RPC. Double the Halves tags, divide by half decks, and leave the indices the same. :-)

    Don

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHouse View Post
    I read this forum since a lot of time also i havent participated, dont be misguided by my number of posts.

    I think i have a certain background of the AP world. I am sceptical about the utilisation of creative and artistic, for me an AP activity is more about using and choosing good methods, and finding the opportunities. Most AP players wont create anything. Straight count is a robot activity. Doing a robot activity doesnt mean you can not think outside the box when you leave the table .
    Also i understand the idea defended by your post, a AP should very have a fully background of all the aspects of the job. You have to do more than only having the good indexes and making no errors with Running Count.

    I agree that not having the "good" indices wont hurt you so much, but why give up some EV once you can have the good numbers ? Plus i think with surrender and especially early surrender, precise indexes can make a little bit of difference.
    I've been quite successful with a casual fast and loose style, not worrying about calculating to the nth degree, adjusting on the fly, taking into account a number of variables such as deck pen by shoe, centred around a dual ramping system, making my deck estimation looking like shit. My developed creative and artistic abilities have served me well. As I've said before, I am consistent in my inconsistency.

    Nothing to be skeptical about. Calculating EV to the nth, trust me, gets noticed.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I've been quite successful with a casual fast and loose style, not worrying about calculating to the nth degree, adjusting on the fly, taking into account a number of variables such as deck pen by shoe, centred around a dual ramping system, making my deck estimation looking like shit. My developed creative and artistic abilities have served me well. As I've said before, I am consistent in my inconsistency.

    Nothing to be skeptical about. Calculating EV to the nth, trust me, gets noticed.
    Further, interestingly enough and on a serious note, WHEATHER purposely or not, I've noticed, given identical play conditions, a general difference in spread between stores fairly close by (with a low expense factor) versus stores requiring flight and car rental (higher expense factor), the latter attracting the higher spreads.

    For those that travel, does this coincide with your experience.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHouse View Post
    Anyone can help me ?
    index halves.jpgindex 2.jpg
    Last edited by Gramazeka; 12-17-2017 at 02:38 AM.

  10. #10
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    I doubt he can read that chicken scratch. Perhaps an explanation that translates into English would make the post helpful.

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