See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 40 to 49 of 49

Thread: Hi Opt II

  1. #40


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    SP. Everything I've read indicates a 10% to 15% increase from Hi Lo all the way to Hi Opt II. Thus how do you increase profits by 30% by jumping from Zen to Hi Opt II?

    Seriousplayer. You have more knowledge than me on the inner workings of these various counts. Is the increase even 5% IYO?
    Using Hi-lo it is possible to get an increase over 5%. One way to increase SCORE over the 5% mark is side count sevens in Hi-lo. Side counting the sevens in Hi-lo increases the BC from .96 to .97 which is good for shoe games. In term of jumping 30% from Zen to Hi-OPT II I am not sure if that is possible. It is possible to improve the Zen count to be on SCORE with Hi-OPT II/ASC. To further improve the BC in the Zen count you would need to side count with the ace deuces assigning aces as -2 and 2s as +2. For IC I would side count the 8s and 9s for DD and SD games to improve IC. Even side counting I don't think it would be possible to jump 30% from Zen to Hi-OPT II unless the rules are very favorable. I think the best would be a 11% to 12% increase.
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 12-16-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  2. #41


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Once you have all that down, learn a bunch of indices. Don't stop at 18. It's a powerful playing count, use it.

    I don't think that's necessary.
    8-9 years ago I switched to Hiopt2 ASC. Using Norm's software (don't remember if it was CVCX or CV Data), I ran sims to see what I would lose in EV by cutting down the number of indices. The % loss was minimal (don't remember the specifics) at TC -8 to +8.
    Incidentally, Lance Humble, in The World's Greatest Blackjack Book, revised edition, 1987, pp. 251-3, states that for HiOpt1 (HiOpt2 is not in the book) that TC -6 to +6 would provide a distinct advantage to the player.

  3. #42
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    South West
    Posts
    957


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    That covers a lot more than the 16 generally used by I18.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  4. #43


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    66.
    10 more for insurance indices for 6 deck.
    In the monograph by Braun & Humble on HIOpt 2, they say not to worry about the values > 10. (Just located it.)

  5. #44


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    learn a bunch of indices. Don't stop at 18
    Sorry Bubbles, I thought that meant, "Don't stop counting at TC 18".

  6. #45


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJer View Post
    From what I've read HiLo does not dwarf a L2 count. Anyways.........
    Hi lo kills hi opt 1 or 2, if the hi opt player is not playing an ace side count. It kills any ace neutral count if the ace is not side counted. In fact, I would venture to say that there is no comparison.

    Try Halves - lots of benefits over hi opt 2.

  7. #46


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I think this thread has turns to my count is better than yours. We have this kind discussion many times over already. Please stick to how to learn/use the HO2 with practical tips/tricks. If someone want to tout his/her count please start new thread. Thanks

  8. #47


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Run the sims and see what count is going to work best for you and your games.

    I use Zen and did lots of sims contemplating a switch to Hiopt2 ASC. I ran sims and generated indices for both Zen and Ho2 for my specific games. I found the switch to Hiopt2ASC was going to be worth something like 3-5% over the Zen i'm using.
    Certainly an improvement but worth it? Only each person can answer for themselves. I play a mix of 6D and 2D and I have no interest in trying to accurately side count aces in a 6D shoes. Side counting aces in a DD game is much easier, an option is to use two counts but trying to switch between two sets of indices and card tags is a way to introduce error. At the end of the day I found the ease of use of Zen and the versatility of jumping between shoes and pitch games with no change of gears to take precedent over a few percent gain..

    Also to note, the canned Hiopt2 sim has a mammoth number of indices, so many rare plays you will probably never see. Once you shave the number down to a more realistic number you will find the Score drops somewhat. I found that with the level two counts you need lots of indices (but the canned hiopt2 sim is over the top.) Certainly more than the I18. I found something like 80-90 was a good balance between plays you will actually execute and actually help your results. If you use Zen or Hiopt2 with less than 40-50 indices you are leaving money on the table...

  9. #48


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by cc12b View Post
    I think this thread has turns to my count is better than yours. We have this kind discussion many times over already. Please stick to how to learn/use the HO2 with practical tips/tricks. If someone want to tout his/her count please start new thread. Thanks
    Comments noted, appreciated. Just note that I've been giving a 2 day spanking on the issue, and shouldn't last much longer. I'm delighted you spelled count properly, so would Mathprof.

    Consider halves for power, efficiency and ease of use.

  10. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by cc12b View Post
    I think this thread has turns to my count is better than yours.
    I hate those. What count is best depends on so many things like what games you plan to attack and your personal abilities and preferences and what other techniques you use simultaneously while counting. The answer differs greatly. The discussion is usually about how a sim performs or why you will suffer the same issues that I haven't spent enough time to work through so you will reduce your EV. I know its natural to see the world as a reflection of yourself but if you can't do something it doesn't mean anything about what others can or can't do. There is no reason you can't develop new skills and others certainly could if they so desired.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.