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Thread: Further Results, a chance to go full retard so Norm can close another thread

  1. 12-14-2017, 10:26 AM #14
    Tarzan
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    6D, S17, DAS 5/6
    Scenario System Source SCORE
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Play-All 1-8 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 30.54
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 30.86
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 32.83
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 34.49
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 35.04
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 36.46
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 37.07

    Play-All 1-10 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 35.62
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 35.64
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 38.08
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 40.03
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 40.72
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 42.19
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog - 42.86

    Play-All 1-12
    HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 39.43
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 39.45
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 42.05
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 44.19
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 44.98
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 46.50
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 47.91

    Back-Count 1-1 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 50.44
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 50.46
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 53.07
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 55.70
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 56.71
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 58.18
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 58.98

    Back-Count 1-2 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 60.32
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 60.27
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 63.04
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 66.77
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 68.02
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 69.26
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 70.15

    Back-Count 1-4 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 65.20
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 65.15
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 68.84
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 72.31
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 73.72
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 75.45
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 76.39

    Back-Count 1-8 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 67.00
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 66.61
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 70.46
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 74.35
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 75.82
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 77.31
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 78.23

    Back-Count 1-12 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 67.58
    HiOpt II noASC CVData+CVCX 67.49
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 71.07
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 75.05
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 76.62
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 78.24
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 79.17

    Unrestricted
    HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 67.74
    Tarzan Basic Gronbog 71.62
    HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 75.22
    HiOpt II + ASC CVData+CVCX 76.82
    Tarzan Expert Gronbog 78.61
    Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 79.5
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  2. 12-14-2017, 10:29 AM #15
    Freightman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    She's at work, so grab-ass isn't an option.
    Actually, she's kind of a surrogate daughter for this 100 year old lady. Theyre out for lunch.
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  3. 12-14-2017, 10:48 AM #16
    Gronbog
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    Tarzan, to get the columns to line up,

    1. Go Advanced
    2. Highlight the table with your mouse
    3. Click the # button to enclose the table in CODE tags.


    Code:
    6 decks 5/6 S17 DAS
                                                         Previous  Latest
Scenario        System                  Source           SCORE     SCORE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play-All 1-8    HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          30.50     30.54
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      30.86     30.86
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          32.06     32.83
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          34.69     34.49
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      35.04     35.04
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          35.84     36.46
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       37.07

Play-All 1-10   HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          35.60     35.62
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      35.64     35.64
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          37.28     38.08     
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          40.26     40.03
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      40.72     40.72
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          41.54     42.19
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       42.86

Play-All 1-12  
                HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          39.18     39.43
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      39.45     39.45
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          41.22     42.05     
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          44.43     44.19
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      44.98     44.98
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          45.84     46.50
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       47.91

Back-Count 1-1  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          50.37     50.44
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      50.46     50.46
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          52.33     53.07
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          55.93     55.70
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      56.71     56.71
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          57.56     58.18
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       58.98

Back-Count 1-2  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          60.23     60.32
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      60.27     60.27
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          62.35     63.04
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          67.10     66.77
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      68.02     68.02
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          68.58     69.26
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       70.15

Back-Count 1-4  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          65.06     65.20
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      65.15     65.15
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          68.05     68.84
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          72.58     72.31
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      73.72     73.72
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          74.84     75.45
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       76.39

Back-Count 1-8  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          66.54     67.00
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      66.61     66.61
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          69.74     70.46
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          74.65     74.35
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      75.82     75.82
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          76.66     77.31
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       78.23

Back-Count 1-12 HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          67.48     67.58
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      67.49     67.49
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          70.26     71.07
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          75.34     75.05
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      76.62     76.62
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          77.61     78.24
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       79.17

Unrestricted    HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX     
                HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          67.63     67.74
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          70.85     71.62
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          75.50     75.22
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      76.82     76.82
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          78.01     78.61
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       79.54
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  4. 12-14-2017, 11:21 AM #17
    Gronbog
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    I'm not sure I understand your question. Those are different levels of the Tarzan system. My software simulated each of them and, for each True Count, accumulated the necessary frequency, EV and standard deviation needed to calculate the optimal bets and SCORE.
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  5. 12-14-2017, 12:06 PM #18
    seriousplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    Tarzan, to get the columns to line up,

    1. Go Advanced
    2. Highlight the table with your mouse
    3. Click the # button to enclose the table in CODE tags.


    Code:
    6 decks 5/6 S17 DAS
                                                         Previous  Latest
Scenario        System                  Source           SCORE     SCORE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play-All 1-8    HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          30.50     30.54
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      30.86     30.86
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          32.06     32.83
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          34.69     34.49
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      35.04     35.04
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          35.84     36.46
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       37.07

Play-All 1-10   HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          35.60     35.62
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      35.64     35.64
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          37.28     38.08     
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          40.26     40.03
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      40.72     40.72
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          41.54     42.19
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       42.86

Play-All 1-12  
                HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          39.18     39.43
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      39.45     39.45
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          41.22     42.05     
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          44.43     44.19
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      44.98     44.98
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          45.84     46.50
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       47.91

Back-Count 1-1  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          50.37     50.44
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      50.46     50.46
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          52.33     53.07
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          55.93     55.70
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      56.71     56.71
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          57.56     58.18
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       58.98

Back-Count 1-2  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          60.23     60.32
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      60.27     60.27
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          62.35     63.04
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          67.10     66.77
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      68.02     68.02
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          68.58     69.26
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       70.15

Back-Count 1-4  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          65.06     65.20
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      65.15     65.15
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          68.05     68.84
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          72.58     72.31
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      73.72     73.72
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          74.84     75.45
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       76.39

Back-Count 1-8  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          66.54     67.00
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      66.61     66.61
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          69.74     70.46
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          74.65     74.35
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      75.82     75.82
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          76.66     77.31
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       78.23

Back-Count 1-12 HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          67.48     67.58
                HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX      67.49     67.49
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          70.26     71.07
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          75.34     75.05
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      76.62     76.62
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          77.61     78.24
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       79.17

Unrestricted    HiOpt II noASC          CVData+CVCX     
                HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          67.63     67.74
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          70.85     71.62
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          75.50     75.22
                HiOpt II + ASC          CVData+CVCX      76.82     76.82
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          78.01     78.61
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog            -       79.54
    How come your results is different from the previous simulation on post # 170 you did?

    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...ulation/page17
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  6. 12-14-2017, 12:07 PM #19
    Three
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Gronbog. What data was input for Tarzan Basic? Tarzan Expert? KC?
    You should ask Tarzan. Gronbog wouldn't answer this question if he knew what you were asking. He would leave it up to Tarzan to answer or not.
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  7. 12-14-2017, 12:09 PM #20
    Midwest Player
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    Has the Tarzan count been revealed anywhere? Just how does it work? All this info is worthless if there is nothing published on how to use it.
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  8. 12-14-2017, 12:24 PM #21
    Three
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Has the Tarzan count been revealed anywhere? Just how does it work?
    T Count has been discussed enough that if you are interested you know how it works. To use it you need to have his playing charts memorized. That said it would be informative to have the differences between the various versions of T count spelled out in this thread. I could explain how it works but I will leave that to Tarzan. And hopefully he explains what extra information is gathered at each level and how it is used to increase the SCORE.
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  9. 12-14-2017, 01:01 PM #22
    Gronbog
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    How come your results is different from the previous simulation on post # 170 you did?
    The post 170 results were for the same game with late surrender. I pointed this out when I posted the column-aligned version of the results (post 173), but I guess Tarzan didn't edit his post to correct that.
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  10. 12-14-2017, 01:07 PM #23
    Gronbog
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    It might be easier for me to state what I assume and then you correct me.

    Tarzan Basic is a 3 column count with ASC.

    Tarzan Expert also side counts the 6 and 9.

    Tarzan expert KC. Divides the 2-5s to 2,3 and 4,5. and the 6-9s column to 6-7s and 89s.
    I don't feel comfortable posting the answer on an open forum. I'm under an informal NDA with respect to the details of how the system works. You notice that I'm not even posting any sim results until Tarzan has already attempted to do so.

    This is something that Tarzan should answer if he feels inclined.
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  11. 12-14-2017, 01:14 PM #24
    Three
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Lol. Of course Gronbog knows. He is the one who sets up the Sim. When I ran a percentage count, I informed him what to input. He informed me how it would be set up.
    You really need to read more carefully as once again you missed what a post was saying. I said Gronbog would most likely let Tarzan decide what to say. And that Gronbog would feel he couldn't reveal despite knowing as a part of confidentiality. Perhaps Tarzan has given him permission to speak but I bet he would either let it be up to Tarzan or check with Tarzan as to whether Tarzan wanted him to speak on this before answering. Perhaps I was unclear in my wording but I thought it was clear. One thing is for certain I never said or implied that Gronbog didn't know.

    My reference to "if he knew what you were asking" was because his post clearly indicated he wasn't sure what you were asking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your question.
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  12. 12-14-2017, 01:45 PM #25
    Gronbog
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Is it fair to assume Hi Opt II does not include the 7 side count?
    The Hi Opt II results do not include any side counts (other than the Ace where specified) nor any playing decisions altered by side counts. Flash has pointed me at the information but I won't be looking into it until after I have finished all of the sims requested by Tarzan.
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  13. 12-14-2017, 01:56 PM #26
    ericfarmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gronbog View Post
    I don't feel comfortable posting the answer on an open forum. I'm under an informal NDA with respect to the details of how the system works. You notice that I'm not even posting any sim results until Tarzan has already attempted to do so.

    This is something that Tarzan should answer if he feels inclined.
    This may also be privileged information, in which case disregard the question, but I'm curious what is Don's involvement in your work with Tarzan? Before the previous thread was closed, Don commented that I was alone in wanting (or at least being willing to) post similar simulation results in this forum... followed a day later by Tarzan posting additional results of your simulation. Is Don similarly "steering" your work, do you and/or Tarzan submit results to Don for review prior to posting here, etc.? Or is this just you and Tarzan working together?

    On a more technical note, this is very interesting stuff. Are you able to describe how your simulation implements Tarzan's strategy? *Not* the details of the strategy itself, but is there an "interface" for specifying a strategy of which Tarzan's is just one example? (Or is Tarzan's strategy more "hard-wired" into your sim code?) I ask because this capability could be useful for evaluating other similarly more complex multi-parameter counts.

    Thanks,
    Eric
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