Further Results, a chance to go full retard so Norm can close another thread

[Tarzan]

6 decks 4.5/6 S17 DAS

Scenario System Source SCORE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play-All 1-8 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 16.74
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 18.23
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 19.47
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 20.54
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 20.89

Play-All 1-10 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 20.11
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 21.71
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 23.18
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 24.32
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 24.72

Play-All 1-12 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 22.69
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 24.37
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 25.99
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 27.21
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 27.65

Back-Count 1-1 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 31.98
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 33.81
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 35.65
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 36.72
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 37.35

Back-Count 1-2 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 38.02
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 40.25
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 42.62
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 44.41
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 44.99

Back-Count 1-4 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 41.06
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 43.40
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 46.15
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 47.54
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 48.16

Back-Count 1-8 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 42.26
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 44.23
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 47.38
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 48.99
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 49.58

Back-Count 1-12 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 42.54
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 44.76
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 47.78
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 49.44
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 50.05

Unrestricted HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 42.64
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 44.98
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 47.91
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 49.55
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 50.17

[Freightman]

Additional details of the Gronbog chronicles.
Norm closed that last thread just moments before I was about to respond. Of course, my comments were not Germaine to the OP.

Of course, that's what makes it so entertaining.

[Gronbog]

Here is a version of the results with the columns lined up:

Scenario        System                  Source           SCORE
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play-All 1-8    HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          16.74
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          18.23
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          19.47
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          20.54
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          20.89

Play-All 1-10   HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          20.11
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          21.71
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          23.18
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          24.32
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          24.72

Play-All 1-12   HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          22.69
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          24.37
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          25.99
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          27.21
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          27.65

Back-Count 1-1  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          31.98
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          33.81
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          35.65
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          36.72
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          37.35

Back-Count 1-2  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          38.02
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          40.25
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          42.62
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          44.41
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          44.99

Back-Count 1-4  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          41.06
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          43.40
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          46.15
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          47.54
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          48.16

Back-Count 1-8  HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          42.26
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          44.23
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          47.38
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          48.99
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          49.58

Back-Count 1-12 HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          42.54
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          44.76
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          47.78
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          49.44
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          50.05

Unrestricted    HiOpt II noASC          Gronbog          42.64
                Tarzan Basic            Gronbog          44.98
                HiOpt II + ASC          Gronbog          47.91
                Tarzan Expert           Gronbog          49.55
                Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10   Gronbog          50.17

[Tarzan]

It's been a fascinating project thus far, a lot of work but I've enjoyed it. It's nice to see some of the final results. Several questions have come up in the analysis of the data and the project is not completed, but it's close, still a few blanks to fill in, such as (H17).

[Freightman]

On a more serious note.
Gronbog, great work.

[Three]

Well now we can get rid of the pen difference between Eric's thread and Gronbog's work. I errantly used win rate in the last T Count thread when T Count results only report c-SCORE but that wouldn't I have changed anything by much in relative terms. Lack of headers in Tarzan's posts caused some confusion on my part.

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...itivity-to-ROR

The things that aren't the same in each sim for my extrapolation is spread, Eric used 1-16 while Gornbog's sim used 1-12, the number of split's as Eric didn't allow respiting because it is too complicated for CDZ. The latter is certainly insignificant. So that just leaves the spread as an assumption that may cause some slop.

From Tarzan's results in the OP:

Play-All 1-12 HiOpt II noASC Gronbog 22.69
Tarzan Basic Gronbog 24.37
HiOpt II + ASC Gronbog 25.99
Tarzan Expert Gronbog 27.21
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 Gronbog 27.65

Tarzan Expert Count gets a 4.694% increase in c-SCORE over Hiopt2/ASC.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 gets a 6.387% increase in c-SCORE over Hiopt2/ASC.


From Eric's sim in the link:
Hiopt2/ASC: c-SCORE 26.90
Optimal play and betting: c-SCORE 35.38

Adjusting Eric's c-SCORE numbers for Hiopt2/ASC by the appropriate percentage increases from Tarzan's T Count data:
Tarzan Expert Count: c-SCORE 28.16.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10: c-SCORE 28.62.

As I did before, if we make Hiopt2/ASC 0 and perfect play 100, T count would be:
(TcountSCORE - Hiopt2wASCcountSCORE)/(perfectplaySCORE - Hiopt2wASCcountSCORE):
Tarzan Expert Count: 1.26/8.48 = 14.86 on a scale of 0 to 100.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10: 1.72/8.48 = 20.28 on a scale of 0 to 100.

So Don's number of 20 seems to be very good for T Count's top performing count.

[Freightman]

Well now we can get rid of the pen difference between Eric's thread and Gronbog's work. I errantly used win rate in the last T Count thread when T Count results only report c-SCORE but that wouldn't I have changed anything by much in relative terms. Lack of headers in Tarzan's posts caused some confusion on my part.

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...itivity-to-ROR

The things that aren't the same in each sim for my extrapolation is spread, Eric used 1-16 while Gornbog's sim used 1-12, the number of split's as Eric didn't allow respiting because it is too complicated for CDZ. The latter is certainly insignificant. So that just leaves the spread as an assumption that may cause some slop.

From Tarzan's results in the OP:

Tarzan Expert Count gets a 4.694% increase in c-SCORE over Hiopt2/ASC.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10 gets a 6.387% increase in c-SCORE over Hiopt2/ASC.


From Eric's sim in the link:
Hiopt2/ASC: c-SCORE 26.90
Optimal play and betting: c-SCORE 35.38

Adjusting Eric's c-SCORE numbers for Hiopt2/ASC by the appropriate percentage increases from Tarzan's T Count data:
Tarzan Expert Count: c-SCORE 28.16.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10: c-SCORE 28.62.

As I did before, if we make Hiopt2/ASC 0 and perfect play 100, T count would be:
(TcountSCORE - Hiopt2wASCcountSCORE)/(perfectplaySCORE - Hiopt2wASCcountSCORE):
Tarzan Expert Count: 1.26/8.48 = 14.86 on a scale of 0 to 100.
Tarzan Expert+KC=0.10: 1.72/8.48 = 20.28 on a scale of 0 to 100.

So Don's number of 20 seems to be very good for T Count's top performing count.

How much time did you spend planning and executing this post?

[Three]

How much time did you spend planning and executing this post?

The planning was already done in the previous thread. It is the obvious mathematical approach so it took but seconds. It took about 5 minutes to make the post.

[Freightman]

The planning was already done in the previous thread. It is the obvious mathematical approach so it took but seconds. It took about 5 minutes to make the post.

I would have preferred to play with my wife's backside.

[Three]

I would have preferred to play with my wife's backside.

I don't think the surgeon would appreciate me being in the operating room to begin with nor the intimate contact. No, she is his assistant.

[Freightman]

I don't think the surgeon would appreciate me being in the operating room to begin with nor the intimate contact. No, she is his assistant.

I'm not in my favourite coffee shop - I'm actually working - but I'm having difficulty p (not really) comprehending your response.

Guess I should get back to work and earn my fees.

[Three]

I'm not in my favourite coffee shop - I'm actually working - but I'm having difficulty p (not really) comprehending your response.

She's at work, so grab-ass isn't an option.

[Frank Galvin]

Guys, not for nothing, as I know that you really crack yourselves up, but can you post comments relevant to an OP's original rationale for starting a thread?

I for one, am eagerly awaiting the opportunity some day to study the T Count method devised by Tarzan to see whether it is something that I might be interested in employing while playing blackjack, and to identify any approaches that I might take away from his methodology and incorporate into my arsenal.

Gronbog (and Don S.), thank you for all of your efforts to aid Tarzan in analyzing his system.