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Thread: What is "Playing Efficiency"?

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    What is "Playing Efficiency"?

    At this link https://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm

    ,it says its:

    "PE indicates how well a counting system handles changes in playing strategy. Playing efficiency is particularly important in hand-held games (one or two decks.)"

    What in gawd's green earth does that mean exactly? And how important is it vis a vis betting correlation, which seems pretty straightforward and very important?

    Thanks!

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    Playing efficiency is calculated by how a count performs for a static set of playing decisions. That is about as much as I have been able to find out when I was curious.

    Generally the wider you spread the more importance BC becomes compared to PE. With fewer decks used or left to be played PE becomes more valuable. So with spreads being confined by heat concerns of pitch games and the fewer cards used PE becomes at least as important as BC if not more important. But in shoe games, especially with poor cuts, where large spreads are generally tolerated BC becomes much more important than PE. That all said what really matters is how playing interacts with your ramp not the BC and PE stats. A sim can tell you all you need to know.

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    P.E. is a measure of how close the count's tags mirror the E.O.R.'s
    of the ten ranks; but more importantly, it is a measure of how well
    the count's index adjustments improve the play of the full range of
    possible hands, adjusted, via weighted averages, for their frequency,
    and at varying True Counts, also weighted.

    Note that simple counts make it simple for the casino to see what you
    are up to. If you bet accurately, with an aggressive bet spread, in a
    game with good rules and deep penetration, P.E. means rather little,
    but that aggression will have you 86'd sooner, rather than later.

    A Double Deck game needs a spread of just 4-1 to 6-1 (depending on
    table conditions) to perform admirably. With one or two decks, P.E. is
    always of paramount importance.

    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 12-04-2017 at 06:09 PM.

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    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    I believe that describes BC (betting correlation). I would like to see a succinct and definitive explanation of PE if possible. When I see PE of .55 for example, .55 of what?

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    Thanx for the correction.

    I had consumed an impressively heavy celebratory cannabis-fest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    I believe that describes BC (betting correlation). I would like to see a succinct and definitive explanation of PE if possible. When I see PE of .55 for example, .55 of what?
    From Eric Farmer; go here: https://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/2013/09/15/efficiency-of-card-counting-in-blackjack-part-3

    The figure above essentially shows the “distance” between a basic strategy player and a perfect player. The performance of any actual card counting system, no matter how simple or complex, will lie somewhere in between these two extremes. If we define the playing efficiency of basic strategy to be zero, and the playing efficiency of perfect play to be one, then the efficiency of any other strategy is calculated using its per-round expected return according to

    Don
    Last edited by DSchles; 12-05-2017 at 08:28 AM.

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    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Thanks, that's helpful. I'll let that roll around in my head for a while.

    All the discussions concerning "best" systems can create fog in my head. After reading and reading and thinking and thinking, some things start to become clearer. For me, the fog is starting to lift a bit on this subject. A recent revelation for me is, in general, counts that include aces are better for BC and counts that don't include aces are better for PE. If you want the best of both, find a count that's comfortable and side count aces and adjust. In counts that include aces adjust playing deviation count downwards for excess aces. In counts that don't includes aces adjust betting count upwards for excess aces.

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    Now this observation may be because my count uses like 500 bins that can be moved for fine tuning betting, but I found that getting that last point, 1.0 being a point, in maximizes SCORE required spending a lot of EV (20%+ of EV) while getting that second to last point didn't cost much at all (1%- of EV). I like to say the difference between the way other systems construct a ramp and how my system does it like this. You are trying to make a wooden sculpture and the other systems use a dull rock to shape the wood while my system uses an Exacto knife set. Meaning the kind of fine adjustments that allow my system to see this type of diminishing returns may not exist the way other systems do things so take that comment on diminishing returns with a shaker of salt. Experiment with your system to see how it does when maximizing that last bit of SCORE. I expect it won't see the diminishing returns that I see with the extensive number of bins I can use to fine tune SCORE. But you never know.

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    Don,

    The link produces:

    "Not Found

    Apologies, but the page you requested could not be found. Perhaps searching will help."



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    Don,

    The link produces:

    "Not Found

    Apologies, but the page you requested could not be found. Perhaps searching will help."


    https://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/...ackjack-part-3

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    It was a reference from Mike's bio in Wikipedia. Not much I can do about the link. Sorry. The book is worth having, if you decide to order it. The article itself, to my knowledge, is not online.

    Don

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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Interesting research-


    " Finally, we can compute the corresponding playing efficiencies:

    Hi-Lo Illustrious 18 has playing efficiency PE = 0.309.
    Hi-Lo with full indices has PE = 0.470.
    Hi-Opt II with full indices has PE = 0.639.
    I think this analysis raises as many questions as it answers. For example, these more accurate calculations of playing efficiency are lower than the approximations given by Griffin (see Chapter 4 in the reference below). There are several possible reasons for the difference: is the approximation inherently biased, or is it simply due to different assumed number of decks, penetration, etc.? "

    Don, what you think ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

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    Griffin primarily wrote about single deck BJ. I was wondering if Eric had a comment on why his numbers differed from those that are commonly published when making a system comparison chart.

    Can someone make Eric aware his commentary is needed in this thread?
    Last edited by Three; 12-05-2017 at 10:47 AM.

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