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Thread: Does CVDATA lets you generate playing indices for the "Tie" side bet?

  1. #1


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    Does CVDATA lets you generate playing indices for the "Tie" side bet?

    I have been looking into attacking side bets in Blackjack. I was trying to derive playing indices for my count in attacking the tie side bet. There are different versions of the side bet with different payoffs. I want to see if I can use CVDATA to generate strategy for the side bet. If not are there other software that are able to do the work?

  2. #2


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    seriousplayer,

    CVData can SIMULATE the Tie sidebet, and thus can be used to find the Effect of Removal for the various ranks, so it can be used to test the tags for counting the sidebet. However, you CANNOT use the Index Generation option to generate indices for the SB tags, since IG can't be used with sidebets.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand View Post
    seriousplayer,

    CVData can SIMULATE the Tie sidebet, and thus can be used to find the Effect of Removal for the various ranks, so it can be used to test the tags for counting the sidebet. However, you CANNOT use the Index Generation option to generate indices for the SB tags, since IG can't be used with sidebets.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand
    How will you go about finding the Effect of Removal for the various ranks using CVDATA? I would appreciate it you can show me. I wonder what software would work for finding indices for the side bets for any count strategy or do I need to pay a gaming mathematician to do the simulation?

  4. #4
    Junior Member wombat64's Avatar
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    I did find a post online that reports a basic strategy and EOR for this side bet (stephenhow calls it PYL = Push Your Luck, but it has exactly the same rules.
    See link (https://discountgambling.net/2012/12...d%20to%20%2425..

    Wizardofodds has posted similar strategy charts - but no info on EOR. In any case, stephenhow also includes a couple of comments:
    I thought with such a low house edge, and with a 10-to-1 multiplier, the game would be easily countable. However, the EORs are pretty tame, and are very similar to standard blackjack

    But if you look at his EOR chart the opposite appears to be true. His result (with my proposed indices):
    Card EOR Normalized EOR Proposed Indices
    2 0.076% 1.36 1
    3 0.069% 1.23 1
    4 0.056% 1.00 1
    5 0.082% 1.46 1
    6 0.122% 2.18 2
    7 -0.066% (1.18) (1)
    8 -0.057% (1.02) (1)
    9 -0.008% (0.14) -
    T -0.031% (0.55) 0?
    A -0.142% (2.54) (2)

    Seems to me that this bet is VERY countable and a simple A/6 index might capture most of the value. Maybe his comment is deliberate misinformation? In any case, I plan to (try!) to run a sim (next weekend!) that uses basic strategy for low counts & switches to his PYL strategy when the EV turns positive. So far I haven't been very successful at getting this side bet to run reliably in CasinoVerite. Sometimes it appears to work fine & others not... So we will see.

    I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or comments you might share on the topic overall.

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