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Thread: Opinion on "even money" and max bet BJ.

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    Opinion on "even money" and max bet BJ.

    Say you have a max bet out, get a BJ with the dealer showing Ace, do you take even money or go by count? Some AP's say they make an exception with a positive count (even if under TC2) and take even money, others say, follow the count for the decision.

    i was playing DD, heads up. TC reached +5 with a deck to go, I had two hands of $150 each, received BJ on both hands, dealer had an up card of A. Thus, TC is really now at 0. I took even money, dealer flipped and had a 5 under. Did I make a mistake? Do you do otherwise?

    I usually take "even money" only if I have a BJ and TC is 2 or more.

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    I take insurance only when my insurance count calls for it. I've met some people who always insure their blackjacks because they think it is cheap enough cover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Say you have a max bet out, get a BJ with the dealer showing Ace, do you take even money or go by count? Some AP's say they make an exception with a positive count (even if under TC2) and take even money, others say, follow the count for the decision.

    i was playing DD, heads up. TC reached +5 with a deck to go, I had two hands of $150 each, received BJ on both hands, dealer had an up card of A. Thus, TC is really now at 0. I took even money, dealer flipped and had a 5 under. Did I make a mistake? Do you do otherwise?

    I usually take "even money" only if I have a BJ and TC is 2 or more.
    Zee, one of your better questions, and if which I'm sure that you will get differing opinions. I recall don, the purist, essentially saying that he didn't take out insurance at TC 2.9, because it was under the threshold. (Or whatever the numbers were).

    From a technical perspective, you did the right thing. From a practical perspective, with 2 snappers, others at tc 0 would have taken even money. It is safe. And it dies give you 2 max bets, though not 3. I would have been inclined to take even money on 1, and play the other.

    Ive had dual snappers many times, with bets ranging from 100 to 500. The most disappointing one was 2 snappers with dealer getting a back door snapper. Sheesh, this is beginning to sound like one if those steamy novels that you like .

    Playing 1 spot, I tend to take even at $100 plus, even if under index, and go for the bonus with less. Not unlike taking insurance a bit below index on a good hand.

    Questions such as this can easily lead one to believe that you are not as stupid as you appear, and that you are playing the crowd, so to speak. I have considered that thought for you for some time.

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    i was playing DD, heads up. TC reached +5 with a deck to go, I had two hands of $150 each, received BJ on both hands, dealer had an up card of A. Thus, TC is really now at 0.
    I would probably take insurance in this scenario, because the three aces you have seen, which you are counting as -1 but for the purposes of insurance really count as +1, urge you to do it. If you are going to play double deck with hi lo you should really employ the ace side count or your insurance decisions are going to be wonky. But if my ace surplus / deficit adjusted count was TC 0 I would definitely not take even money. I am sympathetic the idea that we should insure or insure for less good hands close to the index, especially when wagering aggressively but TC 0 is just too far away to make any sort of insurance play
    Last edited by Meistro123; 06-24-2017 at 05:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    but TC 0 is just too far away to make any sort of insurance play
    Agreed, normally. In this case, he had dual snappers with max bets. Playing the middle by playing out one, and even money on the other seems to be a reasonable compromise.

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    I ran some sims comparing "cover insurance" to see the difference. I found the cost to be little. There are times where I will take money under the index. There are many times like this where the count drops when you get a natural in that round. I would say a majority of the time I will take the money in that situation, knowing the cost is little and there is an element of risk aversion to consider as well especially When you have your max bet out, I and many probably do not fault you for taking even money.

    Consider this, you refuse the even money, the dealer happens to have BJ and your natural pushes, NOW you have your max bet out there and the count next round is even or negative. You know have to either let the bet sit out there or try and take it down. I feel you can more easily get your bet down if you take the even money and pull your money back... You dont want to get into a habit of adjusting bets too much and lowering bets after a push is not something ploppies do very often.

    Same thing for insurance, you can insure your "good" hands like 19 or 20 slightly under the index. While technically an incorrect move you are paying a small price for reducing variance. Its not a bad idea to sometimes toss out insurance with your min bets out as well. You want to make it harder for the the eye or floor to see a correlation between you insuring your hand and the amount of money you are betting.

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    I do not really understand why you would take even money. You got 2 BJ, the count is now back to 0, no technical reason to do it. The cover value here is low because even any ploppy can say if I got 2 BJ, there is a low chance of a dealer getting one. Also the cost of the over now is double since you got 2.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "From a technical perspective, you did the right thing."

    No he didn't. He took even money, which is the WRONG thing!

    "From a practical perspective, with 2 snappers, others at tc 0 would have taken even money."

    That's what Zee did. And, it was wrong. Not even close to being right.

    Don

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    Interesting variety of answers. Technically, Don is right and you should not take insurance/even money. I had seen 3 BJ's come out in same round before and I played it safe. My confidence sores with a win 0f $300 on those two BJ's, feelings that it's not my day happens when a max bet, first one, ends in a push or loss.

    Jimmybond 007 says he would consider insuring 19 and 20. I would more likely insure f I have a 2,3 or a 4,5 than I would insure a 19 or 20 because those hands make it more likely dealer has a BJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    "From a technical perspective, you did the right thing."

    No he didn't. He took even money, which is the WRONG thing!

    "From a practical perspective, with 2 snappers, others at tc 0 would have taken even money."

    That's what Zee did. And, it was wrong. Not even close to being right.

    Don
    You're right, I misread. I had the crazy notion that he refused even. Should have read better and known better.

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    You can always insure for less especially if the count is close. I believe most places let you insure for less. However, I already had a dealer say I couldn't do it and my only choice was even money. The pit didn't know how to handle it either, but on any other hand they would let you insure for less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    because the three aces you have seen, which you are counting as -1 but for the purposes of insurance really count as +1
    the count probably didnt change and still at tc 5. i would take even money. also , someplaces you almost must take even money. there is that much heat associates with insurance sometimes.
    Last edited by stopgambling; 06-24-2017 at 11:39 PM.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Another concern is heat. You went from $25 to $300 on the table and got two snappers. Ryemo or Freighter would know better than me. But you may be exceeding their tolerance.

    Usually the dealer is more excited than me when this happens. This is an example of letting the game come to you. Thus show no emotion and complete the transaction as quickly as possible. Like scoring a Touchdown. Act like you've been here before. Definately not a time for an end zone dance.
    If the dealer is a house dealer, he'll be reporting to management as soon as he is on break. I once had 2 table max snappers with $400 bets. My next appearance at this locale earned me an immediate half shoe. 2x300 on shoe games isn't much of an issue at the stores I play at. 2x150 snappers in vegas should catch a lot if shit for you at dd. I know several places where that wouldn't be an Issue at all.

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