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Thread: Does switching to Two-Hand at high TC really work?

  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    3, you're an idiot. Congratulations.
    That's the idea of doing it. I am glad it worked.

    I think they all know I am counting but also they all believe I look like an idiot so they know they can let me play without getting in trouble for it. That is the battle. Anyone that really thinks they are fooling the suits doesn't understand what is going on. You either need to be perceived as a non-threat or as someone they won't get in trouble for not taking action against. Both are accomplished if you know how to do it. They really don't care about results except when your results make actions against you necessary. Of course no generalization fits every casino but you get to choose what casinos you play at and how to attack each one. They are all different and require a tailored approach for different types.

  2. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    That's the idea of doing it. I am glad it worked.

    I think they all know I am counting but also they all believe I look like an idiot so they know they can let me play without getting in trouble for it. That is the battle. Anyone that really thinks they are fooling the suits doesn't understand what is going on. You either need to be perceived as a non-threat or as someone they won't get in trouble for not taking action against. Both are accomplished if you know how to do it. They really don't care about results except when your results make actions against you necessary. Of course no generalization fits every casino but you get to choose what casinos you play at and how to attack each one. They are all different and require a tailored approach for different types.
    Something of this sort will be the theme if a thread I'll start sometime today or tomorrow. Counters welcome versus counters unwelcome. It will incorporate counter protocol. Some ashole really pissed me off, and need to bring stupidity as a sude theme.

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Hmmm. Not like it hasnt happened before.
    Doesn't count, as those occurrences were not with the proper intent.

  4. #30
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    It went over his head.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    DD in Vegas. You are spreading 1 to 8.
    One to Eight Spread gets you booted in a flash.
    Two hands of Four, even more quickly.


    10,10 vs 5 on the 2nd hand of a max bet. You do it and draw unwanted attention.
    But you don't do it and end up losing 2 hands instead of winning 3.

    Please edit the above. It is so confusing that
    I thought that ZeeBabar penned it.

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    "Why in the world would anyone fly across the US to play a game at less than
    a 1 to 8 or 2 hands of 4 spread that is deemed unacceptable by the authorities."
    I spent years beating the hell out of the S17 DD games on the strip,
    (and at the Sands in Bethlehem PA, etc.) with a 3-1 spread.
    It takes very skillful play. A 6-1 Spread (the general choke_point)
    simply crushes the game. Remember that the House Edge is LESS
    than half of what you are dealing with and penetration can be as
    good as 75%-80%.

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    It must be black chips. Green Chips wouldn't cover your expenses on a short stay unless you have Barbara Eden with you. Short sessions in Vegas equal to NYC Marathon or worse.
    At a DD game with great rules, S17 DAS, my EV is $150 per 100 rounds at $25 min bet. But at the mostly unknown local DD games the rules are S17 DAS LS. A 1-3 spread at $25 min (that min not available) you would be making almost $100 per 100 rounds in EV. Usually you would be required to black chip and the EV would be $300 per 100 rounds. Keep your wins under $3K and they tolerate that $100-$300 spread if it is done right. Betting $300 in any advantage situation that would increase your bet normally. It would be easy to win a lot more if you played longer or more aggressively but then you won't be welcomed back. Some of the local joints have a counter catcher watching each DD game.

  8. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    At a DD game with great rules, S17 DAS, my EV is $150 per 100 rounds at $25 min bet. But at the mostly unknown local DD games the rules are S17 DAS LS. A 1-3 spread at $25 min (that min not available) you would be making almost $100 per 100 rounds in EV. Usually you would be required to black chip and the EV would be $300 per 100 rounds. Keep your wins under $3K and they tolerate that $100-$300 spread if it is done right. Betting $300 in any advantage situation that would increase your bet normally. It would be easy to win a lot more if you played longer or more aggressively but then you won't be welcomed back. Some of the local joints have a counter catcher watching each DD game.
    The best Vegas dd rules with $25 min do not have surrender or S17. Not saying they're not there, just don't know where they are. That being said, there are quality dd games around town that can easily be crushed with 1-4 or 1-5 spreads. Not only that, but you can get them heads up. They're hawked like no tomorrow. I never dared a 6 unit bet - I'd rather keep the game.

    3's point is that there are beauties out there that don't need to much to crush. He hasn't mentioned pen, but I assume that's part of the equation.

  9. #35


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    hello to everyone !from my experince and from all the books that i have read heads up is the best way when u r alone in table even in very high counts.u can go to two hands and reduce the swings but u must resize your original bets coz of the co variance and for that you need the correct bigger br.now if another player join the table in high tc u should bet also behind him if he knows at least basic strategy or else i advise to play also a second hand of yours.u need as many of these 'good' cards u can get sponsored by your bets.also i wnat to add is to play 2 hands in negative counts sometimes gives the illusion of ballance that one hand wins the other that will loose and i see a lot of people doing this but the trouth is simple .... playing 2 hands in negative counts is 2x -0.5 of the minimum bet and in the long run this will damage your results

  10. #36
    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    The best Vegas dd rules with $25 min do not have surrender or S17. Not saying they're not there, just don't know where they are. That being said, there are quality dd games around town that can easily be crushed with 1-4 or 1-5 spreads. Not only that, but you can get them heads up. They're hawked like no tomorrow. I never dared a 6 unit bet - I'd rather keep the game.

    3's point is that there are beauties out there that don't need to much to crush. He hasn't mentioned pen, but I assume that's part of the equation.
    What I do sometimes to increase spread is add a chip at high count after a winning hand. Looks like a gambler riding a hot streak.

  11. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    What I do sometimes to increase spread is add a chip at high count after a winning hand. Looks like a gambler riding a hot streak.
    Done right, you will look like a progression bettor. That would have been close to my usual modus operandi. I would have ramped quickly, so that the 1-2 chip adding would have been as you described, a gambler on a streak. On 1 of th stores I described, on multiple spread out occasions, I started with 1 critter, only to be gawked by 2 in short order. Accordingly, I kept to my modest spread.

  12. #38


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    you will look like a progression bettor
    Best cover ever IMHO.

  13. #39


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    Quote Originally Posted by SpikeBJ View Post
    Best cover ever IMHO.
    Cross reference this to a recent prior spread on dynamic betting, further cross referencing to a sorta kinda current thread, started by me, on AP protocols - having some robotic big mouth counter knowingly crash another counters table, one using tactics herein described, forces said indigenous counter to either adapt to the new table realities, thus bypassing the artistic nuances of his game, or hit the road.

    This is so, since opportunities will decrease due to robots mechanical 1 to 2 to 1 hand tactics, regardless of his actual ability, which would force my retreat, or, to maintain some semblance of EV, to play likewise, thus exposing me to additional scrutiny, where I simply don't want to be scrutinized.

    My apologies for the cryptic nature of the comments herein named, however, those that follow all should now have a better understanding.

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