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  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Risk-averse indices don't lower your win rate if you increase your bets accordingly. The name risk-averse is a bit confusing as RA indices don't actually reduce risk. They increase bankroll growth when used correctly.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #15
    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    Romes. awesome, just what I needed to hear. I am sure I will read and re-read this. You made some valid points that hit home.

    It was just today I realized that it was you that authored a three article series on WOV. I want you top know I printed those articles ( about a year or so ago) and have them in protective sheets in a loose leaf binder and refer to them often. In fact after much study, trial and error, I re-read some of those articles and a had an epiphany that made me understand some more of the math of the game. I was actually re-reading some of those articles this weekend. Thanks for the help. I had planned to listen to your podcast this weekend, but never got to do it, so I am sure I will make time to hear it now.
    "between the conception and the reality, falls the shadow "

    Paraphrased: T.S. Eliot's
    The Hollow Men

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by BetWise21 View Post
    Romes. awesome, just what I needed to hear. I am sure I will read and re-read this. You made some valid points that hit home.

    It was just today I realized that it was you that authored a three article series on WOV. I want you top know I printed those articles ( about a year or so ago) and have them in protective sheets in a loose leaf binder and refer to them often. In fact after much study, trial and error, I re-read some of those articles and a had an epiphany that made me understand some more of the math of the game. I was actually re-reading some of those articles this weekend. Thanks for the help. I had planned to listen to your podcast this weekend, but never got to do it, so I am sure I will make time to hear it now.
    Thanks for the kind words BW. It's funny, when talking with someone about stuff in the articles I'll go back and reference a section or two and even to this day, even though I wrote them, I'll think about things in a different light based on the current situation. That's why I always suggest re-reading as I've been told by a few students that every time they did they were able to pull something new out. That's also why I say there's always something more to learn with blackjack.

    Personally I love to listen to the GWAE pod casts while on trips =P. When traveling it's a great way (for me at least) to stay engaged and alert for an hour at a time. p.s. There are 3 podcasts, two of which my teammate Bruce and I talk about random stories/etc. Keep learning and playing and I'll look forward to hearing your story on one of those podcasts =).
    Don't think you have a winning game; know you have a winning game.

  4. #17


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    Romes said
    "I personally don't use risk adverse indexes, but others might. That would have to be something you'd have to weight the pros and cons of. Do you give up very slight amounts of EV to keep your risk low? How does your bankroll look now? Can you afford to play the game as mathematically dictated now? If you're short on funds but are willing to play with a higher RoR, then perhaps the risk adverse plays are better for you. If you want to get max EV and are willing to replenish your bankroll then perhaps the risk adverse plays that cost a little EV are not worth it to you. Every counter must decide these for themselves based on their situation. Again, for my opinion, I do not play with risk adverse indexes."

    1. Norm is right on the money when he says using Risk Averse indices allow you to make more money, as it gives you the latitude of a higher max bet.

    2. I use a combination of risk averse and EV maximizing plays. I do not use risk averse, for the sake of risk averse, but rather as a means of cover. Example - 8v6 is a double at true +1. The long term gain of +1 doubles is low, and making the double at the strike point makes it easier for the pit to pick you off. This is because there will be lots of 8v6 situations below the strike point where you will not double. However, the long term gain of waiting till +3 is to great to ignore. There are numerous other situations.

  5. #18
    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    I have surmised two things.

    1. I became interested in Blackjack and gambling because I liked the thrill of it and by learning to count in some ways I have diminished that thrill and the results are " somewhat " more predictable. This is why after wining in a red chip game I will wander off to the high limit room and toss around some black chips on a cold table, overbetting my bankroll, to recapture some of the thrill. I will stop this practice if I want to grow my bankroll and be a serious player.

    2. I have spend so much time and effort in seeing if I can learn to count, keep the count, do the math and raise my bet to be a winning player, I forgot to have a plan. I did not make a plan of action. I just showed up at the casino, money in pocket, testing out my progress at the skill, and gave no thought of what to do if I won or lost. I was only there to see if counting really worked and was I capable of doing it. I am convinced that it does and I can. I will not enter a casino without a plan if I want to grow my bankroll and be a serious player.
    "between the conception and the reality, falls the shadow "

    Paraphrased: T.S. Eliot's
    The Hollow Men

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Romes View Post
    Thanks for the kind words BW. It's funny, when talking with someone about stuff in the articles I'll go back and reference a section or two and even to this day, even though I wrote them, I'll think about things in a different light based on the current situation. That's why I always suggest re-reading as I've been told by a few students that every time they did they were able to pull something new out. That's also why I say there's always something more to learn with blackjack.

    Personally I love to listen to the GWAE pod casts while on trips =P. When traveling it's a great way (for me at least) to stay engaged and alert for an hour at a time. p.s. There are 3 podcasts, two of which my teammate Bruce and I talk about random stories/etc. Keep learning and playing and I'll look forward to hearing your story on one of those podcasts =).
    Hey Romes, thanks for the informative posts. Do you have links to the three articles mentioned?

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by NB10 View Post
    Hey Romes, thanks for the informative posts. Do you have links to the three articles mentioned?
    Sure, here they are:

    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A...-in-Blackjack/
    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A...n-Blackjack-2/
    https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A...n-Blackjack-3/
    Don't think you have a winning game; know you have a winning game.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    8v6 is a double at true +1.
    To me this is a great example to show them you are just a dumb gambler. "I haven't won a hand/lost a hand in 3 hands. I'm feeling lucky. I'm doubling with an 8." Goofy sure, works for my table character...(So far)

  9. #22

  10. #23
    Senior Member BetWise21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romes View Post
    There are 3 podcasts, two of which my teammate Bruce and I talk about random stories/etc.
    I listened to your podcast yesterday, loved it, especially the El-Cortez story. We have a similar approach. I am 100 miles from my local store, I play with a card there. I try to hone my skills there and not get too greedy. I try to endear myself to all that work there so they will enjoy having me at their table and at their pit. I am sure some of those dealers know what I am doing and have made friends with many of them. I figure if I am not too greedy and pleasant to have around, they will let me keep practicing there. I tip a little and defend the dealers when other players give them a hard time. I also drink sometimes while playing. I told my wife I have practiced while drinking so I am capable of playing while drinking. I also use the drinking to make some bet moves not look too planned. I let them think the drinking made me decide to make a run at them. I try to make it fun for both them and me.
    "between the conception and the reality, falls the shadow "

    Paraphrased: T.S. Eliot's
    The Hollow Men

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by BetWise21 View Post
    I listened to your podcast yesterday, loved it, especially the El-Cortez story. We have a similar approach. I am 100 miles from my local store, I play with a card there. I try to hone my skills there and not get too greedy. I try to endear myself to all that work there so they will enjoy having me at their table and at their pit. I am sure some of those dealers know what I am doing and have made friends with many of them. I figure if I am not too greedy and pleasant to have around, they will let me keep practicing there. I tip a little and defend the dealers when other players give them a hard time. I also drink sometimes while playing. I told my wife I have practiced while drinking so I am capable of playing while drinking. I also use the drinking to make some bet moves not look too planned. I let them think the drinking made me decide to make a run at them. I try to make it fun for both them and me.
    It's a fine dance to weave, but if you know how to do it successfully, my oh my can it pay dividends... such as having the PB at the El Cortez invite you to bet more and more...
    Don't think you have a winning game; know you have a winning game.

  12. #25


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    Shhhhh
    its all about math and risk of ruin and pushing your glasses further up in your nose and pocket protectors

    What is this dance talk...dances are a wasted opportunity to do equations

  13. #26
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    All dance partners are useful, whether they be numbers or PBs.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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