A valuable message, with words of wisdom that I copied from bigplayer, elsewhere.

[BoSox]

This I feel is well worth reading, and repeating for both new and veteran players alike.

Thank you bigplayer, for the fine work.


" You know, if you want places like ----------to continue to exist everyone should STOP discussing them on pages like this. Ask basic questions, maybe mention a few months after the fact that you got run out of town, but otherwise stop discussing it. Casinos are a superstitious bunch, they will have a bad month and chalk it up to a theory that AP's are flooding into town driving their profits down. Casinos tend to change rules and start kicking everyone out when they feel like they are targets or are getting taken advantage of (whether it is true or not). It only takes one bad month or a bad quarter or a particularly disasterous weekend for their bosses to have to answer to someone higher up the food chain as to what they are going to do about it. The correct answer is usually nothing, it's just bad luck. Unfortunately casinos usually do something that will make the entire market unplayable.

So....shussh. Casino's have subscriptions to this site just like players do and they read all of this stuff. "

[stopgambling]

totally agree . BP is one fine poster ,easy to understand at least for me .

[ZenMaster_Flash]

For decades I have monitored the gaming revenues of numerous casinos.
When revenue drops, casino managers are leaned on by the casino owner
or the C.F.O., etc. to improve their 'bottom line'; and having no way to do
so, they pass the blame from their incompetent hands to the predations of
the mysteriously invisible Card Counters ~ fearsome and stealthy they lurk.

Some years ago I was trespassed from Foxwoods Casino. My mistake was
returning there 2 years after a trespassing at a time when they were laying
off employees and 'cutting corners.' I was playing politely at modest stakes
when along comes a security guard with a handful of photographs of personas
non gratas. He had found a way to prevent himself from being fired. He found
me and I was soon surrounded by a cadre of suits and goons, and a CT. State
Police Officer. I was detained and harassed for quite some time.

[BoSox]

Some years ago I was trespassed from Foxwoods Casino. My mistake was
returning there 2 years after a trespassing at a time when they were laying
off employees and 'cutting corners.'

Speaking of trespassing, Massachusetts Gaming Commission is having a new twist "I have been engaged and also reading up on the new rules/regulations for what to expect in 11 months". When a casino trespasses someone, the casino will be required "under a time restraint" to notify the MGC who will give the trespassed person a chance to defend themselves and request a hearing. Bottom line many players will not request the hearing as they had little chance of winning in a no win situation and will end up on a MGC state exclusion list, "not the same list as a self exclusion list" and they will notify you and the casinos. If you ignore the ruling, and subsequently are later caught gaming in a Mass casino they will not cash your chips, slot vouchers etc and these confiscated money's will be turned over to the commonwealth and end up dispersed into the Mass gaming revenue fund, supposedly. Below is some of this from the MGC web site.


"152.08: Forfeiture of Winnings(1) An individual who is on the excluded list shall not collect any winnings or recover lossesarising as a result of prohibited gaming in a gaming establishment and such winnings shall beforfeited to the commission and deposited into the Gaming Revenue Fund pursuant toM.G.L. c. 23K, §§ 45(j) and 59.(2) Upon verification that an individual who is present in its gaming establishment is on theexcluded list, a gaming licensee shall take steps toa) Remove the individual from the gaming establishment;(b) Where reasonably possible, confiscate from the individual in a lawful manner or notifythe Bureau who shall lawfully confiscate, or refuse to pay any winnings or things of valueobtained from engaging in a gaming transaction including:1. gaming chips, gaming plaques, slot machine tokens and vouchers, and gamingvouchers;2. any electronic gaming device or slot machine jackpot won by the individual;3. any cashable credits remaining on an electronic gaming device or slot machine creditmeter played by the individual.(c) Deliver any winnings or things of value obtained from the individual to the cashiers'cage, and transmit the cash value to the commission for deposit in the Gaming RevenueFund.(d) In conjunction with a forfeiture of winnings or things of value, a gaming licensee shallprepare a form known as a Notice of Forfeiture, which shall include, without limitation, thename of the individual on the list and the manner in which the individual's identity wasestablished, the total value of the forfeited winnings or things of value, the date, time, anda description of the incident leading to the forfeiture. The Notice of Forfeiture shall besigned and attested to by the prohibited individual, unless the individual refuses to sign oris unknown, the employee delivering the winnings or things of value to the cashiers' cage,and the cashiers' cage employee who received the winnings or things of value. 205 CMR: MASSACHUSETTS GAMING COMMISSION152.08: continued(3) If an individual wishes to contest the forfeiture of winnings or things of value, the individualmay request a hearing in writing with the commission within 15 days of the date of the forfeiture.The request shall identify the reason why the winnings or things of value should not be forfeited.The commission shall schedule a hearing on such request and provide notice to the petitioner. "

[SpikeBJ]

Fucking bureaucrats.

[Frank Galvin]

Speaking of trespassing, Massachusetts Gaming Commission is having a new twist "I have been engaged and also reading up on the new rules/regulations for what to expect in 11 months". When a casino trespasses someone, the casino will be required "under a time restraint" to notify the MGC who will give the trespassed person a chance to defend themselves and request a hearing. Bottom line many players will not request the hearing as they had little chance of winning in a no win situation and will end up on a MGC state exclusion list, "not the same list as a self exclusion list" and they will notify you and the casinos. If you ignore the ruling, and subsequently are later caught gaming in a Mass casino they will not cash your chips, slot vouchers etc and these confiscated money's will be turned over to the commonwealth and end up dispersed into the Mass gaming revenue fund, supposedly. Below is some of this from the MGC web site.


"152.08: Forfeiture of Winnings(1) An individual who is on the excluded list shall not collect any winnings or recover lossesarising as a result of prohibited gaming in a gaming establishment and such winnings shall beforfeited to the commission and deposited into the Gaming Revenue Fund pursuant toM.G.L. c. 23K, §§ 45(j) and 59.(2) Upon verification that an individual who is present in its gaming establishment is on theexcluded list, a gaming licensee shall take steps toa) Remove the individual from the gaming establishment;(b) Where reasonably possible, confiscate from the individual in a lawful manner or notifythe Bureau who shall lawfully confiscate, or refuse to pay any winnings or things of valueobtained from engaging in a gaming transaction including:1. gaming chips, gaming plaques, slot machine tokens and vouchers, and gamingvouchers;2. any electronic gaming device or slot machine jackpot won by the individual;3. any cashable credits remaining on an electronic gaming device or slot machine creditmeter played by the individual.(c) Deliver any winnings or things of value obtained from the individual to the cashiers'cage, and transmit the cash value to the commission for deposit in the Gaming RevenueFund.(d) In conjunction with a forfeiture of winnings or things of value, a gaming licensee shallprepare a form known as a Notice of Forfeiture, which shall include, without limitation, thename of the individual on the list and the manner in which the individual's identity wasestablished, the total value of the forfeited winnings or things of value, the date, time, anda description of the incident leading to the forfeiture. The Notice of Forfeiture shall besigned and attested to by the prohibited individual, unless the individual refuses to sign oris unknown, the employee delivering the winnings or things of value to the cashiers' cage,and the cashiers' cage employee who received the winnings or things of value. 205 CMR: MASSACHUSETTS GAMING COMMISSION152.08: continued(3) If an individual wishes to contest the forfeiture of winnings or things of value, the individualmay request a hearing in writing with the commission within 15 days of the date of the forfeiture.The request shall identify the reason why the winnings or things of value should not be forfeited.The commission shall schedule a hearing on such request and provide notice to the petitioner. "

Unlike some other states, since this is MA, I can only wonder how much litigation will ensue over this regulation, and its forfeiture scheme. I have not been there since graduating from law school, so I cannot speak confidently nor intelligently as to the status of MA's more liberal legal system (than my home Sunshine State), but this will likely prove quite interesting, at least to us legal beagles (as well as APs).

[BoSox]

Unlike some other states, since this is MA, I can only wonder how much litigation will ensue over this regulation, and its forfeiture scheme. I have not been there since graduating from law school, so I cannot speak confidently nor intelligently as to the status of MA's more liberal legal system (than my home Sunshine State), but this will likely prove quite interesting, at least to us legal beagles (as well as APs).

Frank, thanks for the response. I included below the reasons under the regulations for possibly someone being entered upon the MGC exclusion list.


152.03: Criteria for Exclusion(1) In the commission's discretion, an individual may be placed on the exclusion list if thecommission determines that the individual meets one or more of the following criteriaa) the individual has been convicted of a criminal offense under the laws of any state or theUnited States that is punishable by more than six months in a state prison, a house ofcorrection or any comparable incarceration, a crime of moral turpitude or a violation of thegaming laws of any state;(b) the individual has violated or conspired to violate M.G.L. c. 23K or any laws related togaming;(c) the individual has a notorious or unsavory reputation which would adversely affectpublic confidence and trust that the gaming industry is free from criminal or corruptiveelements;(d) the individual is an associate of an individual who falls into a category identified in205 CMR 152.03(1)(a) through (c);(e) there exists the potential of injurious threat to the interests of the commonwealth if theindividual is permitted in a gaming establishment.(2) In determining whether there exists the potential of injurious threat to the interests of thecommonwealth if an individual is permitted in a gaming establishment in accordance with205 CMR 152.03(1)(e), the commission may consider the followinga) Whether the individual is a known cheat; 205 CMR: MASSACHUSETTS GAMING COMMISSION152.03: continued(b) Whether the individual has had a license or registration issued in accordance with205 CMR 134.00: Licensing and Registration of Employees, Vendors, Junket Enterprisesand Representatives, and Labor Organizations, or a like license or registration issued byanother jurisdiction, suspended or revoked or has been otherwise subjected to adverse action;(c) Whether the individual poses a threat to the safety of the patrons or employees of agaming establishment;(d) Whether the individual has a documented history of conduct involving the unduedisruption of gaming operations in any jurisdiction;(e) Whether the individual is subject to a no trespass order at any casino or gamingestablishment in any jurisdiction.

[Frank Galvin]

Frank, thanks for the response. I included below the reasons under the regulations for possibly someone being entered upon the MGC exclusion list.


152.03: Criteria for Exclusion(1) In the commission's discretion, an individual may be placed on the exclusion list if thecommission determines that the individual meets one or more of the following criteriaa) the individual has been convicted of a criminal offense under the laws of any state or theUnited States that is punishable by more than six months in a state prison, a house ofcorrection or any comparable incarceration, a crime of moral turpitude or a violation of thegaming laws of any state;(b) the individual has violated or conspired to violate M.G.L. c. 23K or any laws related togaming;(c) the individual has a notorious or unsavory reputation which would adversely affectpublic confidence and trust that the gaming industry is free from criminal or corruptiveelements;(d) the individual is an associate of an individual who falls into a category identified in205 CMR 152.03(1)(a) through (c);(e) there exists the potential of injurious threat to the interests of the commonwealth if theindividual is permitted in a gaming establishment.(2) In determining whether there exists the potential of injurious threat to the interests of thecommonwealth if an individual is permitted in a gaming establishment in accordance with205 CMR 152.03(1)(e), the commission may consider the followinga) Whether the individual is a known cheat; 205 CMR: MASSACHUSETTS GAMING COMMISSION152.03: continued(b) Whether the individual has had a license or registration issued in accordance with205 CMR 134.00: Licensing and Registration of Employees, Vendors, Junket Enterprisesand Representatives, and Labor Organizations, or a like license or registration issued byanother jurisdiction, suspended or revoked or has been otherwise subjected to adverse action;(c) Whether the individual poses a threat to the safety of the patrons or employees of agaming establishment;(d) Whether the individual has a documented history of conduct involving the unduedisruption of gaming operations in any jurisdiction;(e) Whether the individual is subject to a no trespass order at any casino or gamingestablishment in any jurisdiction.

Wow!!!!!

The Commission is afforded unbridled discretion to exclude anyone under 152.03, if the person is an "associate" of a person who "has a notorious or unsavory reputation which would adversely affect public confidence and trust that the gaming industry is free from criminal or corruptive elements". Does that include lawyers who represent people who have been convicted of any crimes? Those who have clients who have not been convicted, but only charged with criminal charges?

In making their determination, the Commission can consider whether "the individual is a known cheat". How is that decided? By casino standards, that view all APs as cheats?

Also, the Commission is allowed to make their determination based upon an individual having been trespassed at any gaming establishment in any jurisdiction. Not just establishments situated within the Bay State, but Rhode Island, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Iowa, Nevada, etc. How about someone who was trespassed in the UK, Australia, etc.????

I wonder if they will establish definitions and limitations through rulemaking, or strictly on a case by case basis.

I had so been patiently awaiting the construction and opening of new casinos in MA. Leave it to the Massachusetts legislature to bring Mickey Mouse regulations to bear on future gaming opportunities.

[Freightman]

Wow. It's starting to look like it's against the law to think anymore.

[21forme]

Wow. It's starting to look like it's against the law to think anymore.

Beware the thought police!

[ferenc11]

1984...Orwell....

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