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Thread: BC vs PE

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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    BC vs PE

    I maintain that a counting system that has a large BC will always benefit from a system with a smaller BC, if there is enough spread. Do you agree?
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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Omega 2 better than Hi Opt 2 ? ))
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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Why?
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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    And you did not try to do this comparison on computer simulations with more subtle settings? For example, reduce the deck divider or increase the spread ? You will be surprised when the Omega 2 starts winning at Hi Opt 2. EBJ 2 vs RPC is same. RAPC 71 vs Halves same...

    BC is a great power!
    Last edited by Gramazeka; 09-23-2017 at 06:51 PM.
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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    No sir. But I would always highly recommend running a Sim. Rules can change the outlook. Just like in sports.

    Generally speaking, on the Sims I've ran, giving the 9 credit perform better than when not giving it any credit.
    I don't reckon 789s in Spanish 21.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    And you did not try to do this comparison on computer simulations with more subtle settings? For example, reduce the deck divider or increase the spread ? You will be surprised when the Omega 2 starts winning at Hi Opt 2. EBJ 2 vs RPC is same. RAPC 71 vs Halves same...

    BC is a great power!
    I would guess all count have their strong points..I would even further suppose, ho2 gets a slight edge over Ao2 because it uses 15-25 more (of the extreme) indexes..Most are justified since ho2 omits the 9..Thats why you see ho2 with alot more indices vs a dealers two..The others half is just because Bryce Carlson didnt want to include plays for some of the the most extreme plays..When all becomes equal they are very very close..However i still believe Ho2 works better together as overall system, which is why it always produces an exceptional SCORE..Im a true believer that some systems just work better as a whole..An analogy of this would be like a muscle car with 800 horses but dont have a transmission to support the torgue..So keep this in mind as far as BC goes..Meaning it could be good for betting but it could also put you at higher risk..I really enjoy the analysis of count system and seeing how well the handle particular hands and bets..( I actually used Ao2 with Ace side-count for multiple decks and to be honest with you i was really disappointed on how well it handled bets)..

    And as a general rule of thumb, i noticed the closer the index is to Zero(in relation to point count values) he better the system is for that particular hand..So as you see, depending on wether you play-all, rules, pen, bet spreads, bet stratetgy it all makes a difference on how well a count performs..

    What at your thoughts?
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 09-24-2017 at 03:30 AM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    I maintain that a counting system that has a large BC will always benefit from a system with a smaller BC, if there is enough spread. Do you agree?
    I only agree to a certain extent. It is true that counting system that has a large BC is beneficial to multi-deck blackjack games (6-8 deck). For single and double deck games using a counting system with a large PE is more significant compare to BC. I found that out through simulations. I simulated a count with BC =.97 and PE = .61 in a double deck game but when I added side counts to increase the BC to .99 the SCORE increase was small.

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    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    I would guess all count have their strong points..I would even further suppose, ho2 gets a slight edge over Ao2 because it uses 15-25 more (of the extreme) indexes..Most are justified since ho2 omits the 9..Thats why you see ho2 with alot more indices vs a dealers two..The others half is just because Bryce Carlson didnt want to include plays for some of the the most extreme plays..When all becomes equal they are very very close..However i still believe Ho2 works better together as overall system, which is why it always produces an exceptional SCORE..Im a true believer that some systems just work better as a whole..An analogy of this would be like a muscle car with 800 horses but dont have a transmission to support the torgue..So keep this in mind as far as BC goes..Meaning it could be good for betting but it could also put you at higher risk..I really enjoy the analysis of count system and seeing how well the handle particular hands and bets..( I actually used Ao2 with Ace side-count for multiple decks and to be honest with you i was really disappointed on how well it handled bets)..

    And as a general rule of thumb, i noticed the closer the index is to Zero(in relation to point count values) he better the system is for that particular hand..So as you see, depending on wether you play-all, rules, pen, bet spreads, bet stratetgy it all makes a difference on how well a count performs..

    What at your thoughts?
    https://www.blackjackinfo.com/commun...mega-ii.20339/

    But on the graphs by Norm, we see a significant advantage of the system Hi Opt 2 . I'm sure this is an exaggeration.
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    Last edited by Gramazeka; 09-24-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Halves the best system with little SD , although it has difficulties with count 5. I like the Double Halves- no problem with 5 and ST.
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Halves the best system with little SD , although it has difficulties with count 5. I like the Double Halves- no problem with 5 and ST.
    I don't double the values for halves. - I use the fractions. Eliminates a step making the count faster.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    How do you insert a RC +8.5 in formulas ST ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gramazeka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    On CV Data and Verite there is a box in Counts under Options. Click on Half point support. Also, CV Data in Betting there is a box to click Half True Count Betting. For Verite, go to Settings. Then True Count. A nifty feature under True Count Options is TC Decimal places displayed.
    Do I understand correctly that you do this only theoretically? I once was told about good trackers that use Omega 2 - I laughed )) I could not get an answer-how they insert aces in broken slug ?
    "Don't Cast Your Pearls Before Swine" (Jesus)

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramazeka View Post
    Do I understand correctly that you do this only theoretically? I once was told about good trackers that use Omega 2 - I laughed )) I could not get an answer-how they insert aces in broken slug ?
    I think Fenix has said she does this, with HOII.

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