DD penetration

[ellenc]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

[Freightman]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

Heads up, with spread - something like a modest 1x25 to 2x500, is playable. I played such a game.

[Midwest Player]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

Of course its playable. I play and beat this game all the time, and its not always heads up. In fact most of the time there is at least one or two other players. However, some dealers might be generous and give 55% pen. Yeah it sucks when you get only three hands and the dealer shuffles. I have won 92% of my sessions this year playing 50% DD. Average of win and losses is a little over $xxx per session. It is a big difference from 30 years ago when my average of win and losses for the year was a little over a negative $10 per session.

Disclaimer: I'm running real hot this year. I don't know why. I usually don't have these kind of numbers, but I can beat 50% DD. I also don't have many hours in for the year. Only 126 blackjack hours.

[Barney112]

I. Live in St Charles mo are double deck games used to be be pretty good games . But Ameristar stop washing there cards they them straight into the Shuffler's and they pull four and five cards 21 alot Hollywood does wash their cards they changing them ever 3 to 4 hours . so I give up on playing them here . A lot of the whales that was here has moved to 6 Decks and mini bac .. so yes it's hard to win after a few hands on the double backs in our area .

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[ZeeBabar]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

In all games, the deeper the penetration the better the game, the higher the SCORE. Fact is that the effect of penetration is more important than any other rule (except 6;5 BJ).

[bigplayer]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

No, I don't agree. Bad rules the standard 1-8 play-all approach is probably a waste of time. With good rules and uncrowded conditions you'd have a pretty good game, even with 50% pen. especially if the casino has a high tolerance.

[bigplayer]

But Ameristar stop washing there cards they them straight into the Shuffler's and they pull four and five cards 21 alot

Modern shufflers pick cards relatively at random and insert them into a series of slots. There is no difference in the randomness of the pack whether the cards are washed or not. Clumping of big cards and small cards is part of randomness. Evenly distributed cards are most certainly non-random. If the cards are coming out in a non-random way after no wash they would come out sequential by suit. I'd guess that they don't and if they did you would probably have a massive advantage because you'd have a shot to always predict the next card.

[RS]

I have observed the in DD game, when the penetration reaches 50%, the game becomes unplayable. Agree?

Like with all (or almost all) things AP-related, it depends.

1. EV is most important -- if the EV isn't at least X amount, then it's not worth it. If the EV is at least X amount, then it might be worth it.
2. Spread, rules, and penetration (already noted as shitty) are important.
3. # of players and speed of play.
4. What's playable for you may not be playable for me, or vice versa. A 0.5% edge might be "playable" to some while a 1% edge might not be "playable" to others.

I've played DD games with 50% which were worth it and 75% games which were not worth it.


I think you've been around here long enough to figure out you should just sim the game with CVCX, look at the EV, N0, SD, etc. and be able to make a fair determination from there.

[Bigdaddy]

IMHO, at 50% pen this is a pretty marginal game even if you find good rules.

I ran a quick sim for a DD game with good rules, 50% pen, H17 DOA, DAS, spread 1-10, using HO2 ASC with top 40 indexes. Came up with a whopping SCORE of about 35. So you can see how any one negative factor added to this scenario would clearly make the game unplayable; e.g.: lesser spread, less powerful count, poorer rules, heat, game speed, etc....

[jimmybond007]

50% pen is not good. I would stay away even heads up. I like to see at least 60-65% pen. Of course there is always the "it depends" rule as well. There may be s 50% pen game worth playing. Each game is unique in its dealing procedure and speed etc...

[Barney112]

Modern shufflers pick cards relatively at random and insert them into a series of slots. There is no difference in the randomness of the pack whether the cards are washed or not. Clumping of big cards and small cards is part of randomness. Evenly distributed cards are most certainly non-random. If the cards are coming out in a non-random way after no wash they would come out sequential by suit. I'd guess that they don't and if they did you would probably have a massive advantage because you'd have a shot to always predict the next card.

I think the ones who play in high limit room play the 3 card poker alot . Some do OK must die ..

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