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Thread: Cover play

  1. #1


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    Cover play

    Wanted to get the thoughts of more experienced players, what are the most effective cover plays for lessening heat whilst minimising the amount of EV sacrificed?

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    What I alluded to in the previous post is suits will watch to see if you play certain hands differently as the count changes. Since they aren't going to waste much time doing this they choose common matchups with indices as close to 0 as possible. This will allow them to expect to see you play the match up on either side of the index in a short period of time. A computer review is harder to fool. What you are trying to do is keep the suit from recommending further review. Always playing these hands the same way or moving the index as I suggested in the previous post accomplishes thwarting the first look review of play by suits in the pit. If you use Hilo this link shows how fast EV changes around different indices. Note the scale as it changes from graph to graph:

    https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

    Only so much can be done at little cost if you use Hilo because they look at your play through a Hilo lens since it is by far the most common count.
    T3, there is no evidence that a HiLo will get you thrown out faster than a Zen or Hi Opt 2 or whatever. It's just assumptions to justify the count you use or make yourself superior to others. A lot of ploppies don't even remember how they played a particular hand 5 minutes ago, look at the chips in front of them and their bet size to determine whether they should double or split etc. To assume they will think you are a counter on these is silly. Lots of card counters play exactly by the strategy but they lose because of betting mistakes. If a card counter puts out a $20 bet out on a $10 table with a TC of Plus 5, do the casino care if he is making perfect strategy deviations?

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Always stand on 16vT. If you are wonging like you should be it costs almost nothing. It is only wrong on minimum bets and the decision is a basically coin flip until you get to TC -2 or less. You should hardly ever still be playing at TC -2 or less. That infrequency of occurrence and minimal bet makes the cost of always standing on 16vT virtually nothing. If you play pitch games making the index -3 or -4 messes up their use of 16vT to profile counters quickly by their playing deviations.
    Thank you. The index that I use for 16v10 is stand at 0 or higher.

    What about betting changes eg if the TC jumps or falls rapidly from one round to the next, how do you guys deal with multiple unit betting changes?

  4. #4


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    Zee brings up an excellent pint. First, my own excellent point. I don't give a shit what simple or fancy schmancy count system one uses. A big spread can be hidden in any of them . Just got to be smart enough to do it.

    Zees point
    When you make as many bad lays as Zee-who gives a shit if he's counting or not. Many counters will fail because they are bad, or under capitalized etc. Etc.

    Just saw my misspelling about Zees lays. To good an error to correct

  5. #5


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    The standing on 16v10 great advice. Also of you find yourself hovering right on an index point and it doesn't really matter one way or other.... ask the dealer or floor what you should do and let them suggest your action and do what they say. Makes you look dumber and costs little to nothing. This mostly would apply to 12s, 15s, 16s, and some double hands etc. Hands that ploppies differ on. Some hit 12s, some dont etc... don't ask the dealer or floor what to do when you have an A9vs 6. You already know an overwhelming majority of times what the answer will be.

  6. #6


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    Do you mind sharing the ways you disguise a big bet spread? Do you only move bet size by one increment watch round? Does this method not give up a lot of EV?

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by NB10 View Post
    Do you mind sharing the ways you disguise a big bet spread? Do you only move bet size by one increment watch round? Does this method not give up a lot of EV?
    Requires a stronger type bankroll. Think opposition betting. Thing dynamic betting. Link below will put you in the right direction. The methods have frankly been talked about to much in an open forum.

    https://www.blackjackinfo.com/commun...rd-reid.24544/

  8. #8


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    Three wrote: Always stand on 16vT. If you are wonging like you should be it costs almost nothing.

    Anytime you Wong in at a positive count, this play isn't a "cover play", it's an index play! And of course, it cost nothing, in fact it's the move to be made.
    Standing 16 vs 10 in a negative count IS a cover play. The cost of this play will depends on your bet spread.
    G Man

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    You clearly don't understand what you are talking about. There is lots of evidence. I see it all the time. They are sweating the guy betting a lot smaller using Hilo and the other guy at the table is using a more complicated approach and betting a lot more and they could care less. Why? Because the guy using Hilo does everything they expect a counter to do because their expectation of what a counter will do is based on their use of Hilo. The other guy looks like a bad counter or a ploppy even though he is better.

    Using Hilo is fine. It works great if you can stand the variance or can play to its strengths and away from its weaknesses. But that doesn't mean that you aren't exposing yourself more by being exactly predictable. And when you do something that looks stupid to the Hilo observer it has to actually be stupid because you are using Hilo. If you are using another count that is not necessarily the case.
    3
    You're off base. Look at my post 9. Advanced techniques can be utilized with any system. you make too many assumptions not necessarily evidenced.

    For example, if you forget to use your super duper triple ramp system, you might just look like another dumb schmuck from the neighbourhood.

  10. #10


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    Three wrote: There are other types of wonging. I was referring more to bailing out of some more negative counts.

    Next time try to differenciate Wong in and Wong out, it's A LOT DIFFERENT!
    G Man

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