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Thread: How random is this win really?

  1. #1


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    How random is this win really?

    Found a very interesting situation. Would like well-reasoned input from the more experienced players.

    The idea stems from Peter Griffin's theory of blackjack, and observations of a very idiosyncratic casino procedure.

    The story: Every time I enter this store, I must ask for the game, as it is not generally played. After cordials, the staff will always pull out six new plastic wrapped decks, and begin the process of ripping up the jokers and spreading the cards faceup on the felt.

    The shuffle is very simple. Each deck is individually riffle shuffled with itself. One shuffle. Then placed on the felt. Once all decks are complete, they create two columns of three decks, side by side. Each deck is shuffled with its partner, the deck next to it. One shuffle. Then stacked in the middle to form a final deck.
    The final deck is broken into two halves and half-deck sized segments are pulled from each half to be shuffled together in a one pass riffle, then stacked in the middle for the final deck. Simple right?

    This appears to be a mere three shuffles?

    Peter Griffin States:

    While on the subject, it might be surprising that, occasionally, the number of times the dealer shuffles may influence the player's expectation. New decks all seem to be brought to the table with the same arrangement when spread:
    A23...QKA23...QKKQ...2AKQ...32A.

    If the dealer performs a perfect shuffle of half the deck against the other half, then, of course, the resultant order is deterministic rather than random. Three perfect shuffles of a brand new deck give the head-on basic strategist about a 30% advantage (where the cards are cut is considered as uniformly random), whereas five perfect shuffles reverse the edge to 250/0 in favor of the house! Is it a coincidence that one of the major northern Nevada casinos has a strict procedure calling for five shuffles of a new deck, but three thereafter?
    (Page 138)


    I have observed. Prior to reading this. That I win the majority of my hands on the first shoe, right after this basic looking shuffle. With some very non-random-seeming situations occurring. I get a lot more suited hands. I win against dealer busts more often. I find myself with 20 or 19 or blackjack an awful lot more.

    Very likely I am experiencing great luck, or is there a possibility of an edge here?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Fringe; 08-20-2017 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #2


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    How random is this win really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Posting about weak procedures is a sure way to end the opportunity. I would delete the details and just reference Griffin's book. Casino personnel regularly read these boards. I had noticed procedural changes from my posts before I learned my lesson. You have to post more cryptically when getting into sensitive material.

    Griffin was one of the best but keep in mind his book is almost exclusively about SD games.
    In a general sense you're right. I gave it thought before posting. Don't you worry your little heart.
    The casino personnel in these stores don't speak English and most don't even know all the rules to these games. The conditions are not as static as you think. And believe it or not I've been more cryptic than you've been lead to believe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Fringe; 08-21-2017 at 11:48 AM.

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