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Thread: Cover play

  1. #53


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypercube View Post
    Originally Posted by NB10
    Wanted to get the thoughts of more experienced players, what are the most effective cover plays for lessening heat whilst minimising the amount of EV sacrificed?

    Hypercube responded with:

    if I have max bet out and i want to split 10s v 4,5,6 i take out my double sided tail coin out and say heads i stand tails I split!! if its a low count i use my double sided head coin!

    NB10, do not listen to Hypercube, he is just a troll.

  2. #54


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Wait. Hybercube is a troll? Wasn't Don S are many welcoming aboard a few days ago? Man, this soap opera moves so fast.
    Don't discount the possibility that Hypercube is an existing poster simp,y using an alias.

  3. #55


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Don't discount the possibility that Hypercube is an existing poster simp,y using an alias.
    Is Hypercube ZenKing or him using his girlfriend's computer?

  4. #56


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Is Hypercube ZenKing or him using his girlfriend's computer?
    Not his writing style, though I do have my suspicions. Spotting KJ's alter ego was easy. This one is a bit more obscure.

  5. #57


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    NB10 - the best way to disguise your play is don't give them sufficient information. Keep your sessions short. 3 shoes or less on a 6-8D game. On DD, only show your max bet once, then leave. Yes, this is problematic if you are playing somewhere where there aren't many casinos. That's the nature of the beast.

    Many of the books, such as Ian Anderson's, are out of date. They were written in a time when game conditions were much better and you could afford to give up a little EV with cover play. Also, he was playing big money, which is another way you could afford cover.

    If you listened to this week's GWAE, a $1000/hour play was discussed. The player tipped hundreds. You can't do that at regular BJ at the red or green chip level.
    Thanks for your input. It seems short sessions are the best way along with some interaction with casino personnel. The short session lengths make it a lot harder to increase the number of rounds, but like you said, it seems to be a necessary evil in today's environment.

    I presume his book is still worth reading and adapting the techniques for more modern day casinos though.
    Last edited by NB10; 08-13-2017 at 02:01 AM.

  6. #58


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    NB10, do not listen to Hypercube, he is just a troll.
    Thanks.

  7. #59


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    I do not take serious whatever the trolling or alias or whatever other BS claims a few of you are coming up with on here for no particular reasons. In fact, it is you who are acting like trolls, this thread is supposed to be about cover plays. I have no other ids, or accounts on social media or any other BJ site. A few of you who have emailed me at the address I provided can vouch for that. There is only one person in AP community who knows my real name and only that person knows who he is and i trust them to secrecy.

    My purpose is only to learn and to share information in fellowship. I have no time for frivolous drama or arguments unless it's about maximizing EV or study of this game. I treat bj as a professional adding supplemental income to support my family. Any advice given is from my direct experience or simulations, whether it may be wrong or right in your viewpoint, it is my honest thoughts.

    The coin toss thing is not trolling, it is a standard gimmick I use often. I see so many try hard counters at tables that make it so obvious with their serious demeanor. I am courteous and polite and friendly to dealers and other players. My dislike about hilo is from my own experience of it failing to provide results that meet my goals. My switch from hilo to my improved version of ubz2 with 1/4 resolution and then switch again to hiopt2 w/A saw very noticeable and immediate improvements in my daily and hourly P/L charts.

    long live blackjack!

  8. #60


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypercube View Post
    nope i dont split 8s v 9,10,A, because my sim results optimizing score and RA betting for the system i play tell me it reduces $$/hr if it do it in high counts. I get that its technically borderline better in low counts, not doing it gives up nothing and reduces session variance and you can simply take that $$ where you were going to split the 88s v 9,10,a and wait and place an extra bet in a better double down or split situation v a weaker dealer card, so not splitting the 8s become huge +ev that way

    Hypercube, there is so much wrong with the above quote that if this is how you think I will kindly ignore you. You can not play that way "wait and place an extra bet in a better double down or split situation v a weaker dealer card" by picking and choosing your own basic strategy, and rightfully say "so not splitting the 8s become huge +ev that way" that is simply not true. Using risk averse indexes is a good thing, and I recommend players use them, but you are taking this to a whole new level.


    " Originally Posted by hypercubeOriginally Posted by NB10
    Wanted to get the thoughts of more experienced players, what are the most effective cover plays for lessening heat whilst minimising the amount of EV sacrificed?"

    Hypercube responded with:

    "if I have max bet out and i want to split 10s v 4,5,6 i take out my double sided tail coin out and say heads i stand tails I split!! if its a low count i use my double sided head coin!"

    Go ahead and use your two sided coin flip, and go get that extra EV for that play. What about beyond that one play? Oh yes, in your world no one saw a thing, great idea, that is completely ridiculous.
    Last edited by BoSox; 08-13-2017 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #61


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypercube View Post
    I get that its technically borderline better in low counts, not doing it gives up nothing and reduces session variance and you can simply take that $$ where you were going to split the 88s v 9,10,a and wait and place an extra bet in a better double down or split situation v a weaker dealer card, so not splitting the 8s become huge +ev that way
    For the record you can double down, or split. but you can not place an extra bet knowing ahead of time that the hand will be a double down, or split situation.
    Last edited by BoSox; 08-13-2017 at 05:43 AM.

  10. #62


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    Quote Originally Posted by NB10 View Post
    Thanks for your input. It seems short sessions are the best way along with some interaction with casino personnel. The short session lengths make it a lot harder to increase the number of rounds, but like you said, it seems to be a necessary evil in today's environment.

    I presume his book is still worth reading and adapting the techniques for more modern day casinos though.
    It's worth reading, but I would put it far down the list. Similar to Thorp's "Beat the Dealer," it's more for historical and entertainment value at this point.

  11. #63


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    For the record you can double down, or split. but you can not place an extra bet knowing ahead of time that the hand will be a double down, or split situation.
    no choosing a borderline offensive advantage split or double to put that money on the felt instead of a defensive split with the 88 i am saying is more +ev use of the capitol, and the sims are not going to show that directly

  12. #64


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    Quote Originally Posted by hypercube View Post
    Hilo is the worst for beginners because, becuase beginners have small bankrolls and hilo has huge variance compared to a strong count system like hi opt2!

    If new players have read Chapter 8 in Don's S great book, on Risk of Ruin like they should have, they would have a much better understanding of what is needed financially to play the game properly. By learning Hi Op 2, can get you an extra 15 to 20 % EV over the Hi lo count, but it really boils down to the individual and what he/she is capable of doing. Just because there is more gain to be made using a more complex system, does not make it a suitable system for everyone. One way to make up some of that gain is put in a little more playing time, preferably not in the same place, or pit. You can cut down on a lot of the variance by wonging, do not underestimate its value. Do not misconstrue what I am trying to say, this will not solve all the players problems by any means, mainly the up front house edge, and the all important cut card placement. For the record I am very selective on house rules and would not play certain games in many sections of the country. Because the differences in percentages of up front house edges are much, much greater than that 15 to 20% difference gain from using Hi OP2. Such as having S17 and Late surrender, with the gain from a counters perspective not a basic strategist.
    Last edited by BoSox; 08-13-2017 at 07:49 AM.

  13. #65


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I am with your wanting to be risk averse but this logic is bad. Borderline anything is weak and would not make sense to use the money on even if you found the chips in a cup holder. Finding a great situation you can use it for is another story. Like increasing your max bet a hair all the time. But then you have selected your bets carefully to work as a team so there is a reason for the selection made already. Splits are just such rare plays that whatever you do has a minimal impact. I like the idea of giving up a little EV to get a smoother ride but most of these I can't get behind without a closer look. I would only consider 8,8 because it also has cover value not splitting it and I would only do it against a T especially when surrender is an option. It is giving up EV but your count is a terrible indicator of what to do with 8,8vT. How do you know that making the moves you are talking about is +EV?


    Oh, I see. You don't say that. You say using the money on a weaker split or double is better because it is an offensive split. But if it is an offensive split aren't you doing it anyway unless it is already a RA adjusted index? You should never double for less when playing for real money and you can't double or split for more. Sorry, I am just having trouble understanding what you are saying in a way that you can actually do it or that makes sense. Could you clarify with an example of using it to double or split an offensive split that you aren't already splitting or a double that you aren't already doubling?
    you say border line anything is weak, i say splitting 88v9,10 is borderline and weak and comes with high short term variance and that their are many more borderline plays to choose from where you actually have the odds to win the hand and so your variance will be lower, unlike the splitting 88 where you have odds to lose the hand. So take that money and deploy it on a soft 20 double versus a 4,5,6 in a high count instead.

    I get the sense people are not understanding, what i am suggesting is stop splitting 88 against a dealer 9,10 in a high count and it will lower session variance and the effect on longterm ev is minuscule which can be more than made up by deploying that capitol in a better way. What I suggest instead is finding a better advantage situation to take that max bet that would have gone out on the split 88 and deploy in a +ev situation instead, merely learning one more index you are not using today for example gains back more ev, pick one of these.

    A2v4
    A4v3
    A5v3
    A8v4
    44v4
    99v7

    A3v3
    A8v3
    A9v5
    A9v6
    1010v5
    1010v6

    A8v2
    A9v4
    A10v4
    A10v5
    A10v6
    1010v4


    This is a game played with real players and you guys are smart I am sure you can find a way to deploy an extra max bet in advantage situation over the course of a session that is better than splitting 88v10 to theoretically lose less in the long run in a monster count when you know the dealer has a 10!
    Last edited by hypercube; 08-13-2017 at 07:46 AM.

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