House edge on this game?

[IamHussler]

Hi guys still very new to blackjack but these forums have been very helpful so far. Tonight I was practicing using Bs on a 10$ table tonight at my casino. All games are csm except for the 100$min table. It's 6 deck dealer put the cards in after 6 hands were dealt out with 3 players at the table. Game was BJ pays 3-2, double 9,10,11 only and resplit only once, dealer stands on soft 17 but the reason I'm asking the house edge is they were offering free doubles and free splits. I wasn't aware until the dealer told me and I noticed a small sign, was able to double and split without using anymore of my chips. Sorry if this is the wrong area but I thought what they were offering as unusual to what I've seen elsewhere. Thanks in advance.

[flamethrower]

Any game with CSM is pretty much useless.

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[Freightman]

Sounds like free bet, a blackjack variant. There's a couple of other quirks. Haven't simmed, but house edge hovers around 1%. Good game to stay away from, especially since not countable due to CSM.

[davethebuilder]

The free doubles and splits give you around a 6% edge over the casino which is then offset by around a 7% disadvantage due to the Push 22 rule.

[Meistro123]

The 1% house edge is for the H17 verson. S17 is worth +.31 according to WoO. Free Bet has it's own basic strategy, and your decisions change depending on if you are playing your original bet or a free split. While this variant is susceptible to counting AFAIK there are no openly published indexes as of yet. Late surrender is also worth significantly more for the basic strategist than it is in regular blackjack.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

A game to AVOID.

[Jabberwocky]

A game to AVOID.

Even with hole-carding???

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Even with hole-carding?"

The question that that begs is just ...
what % of hole cards are you peeking?

[radarjam]

I disagree with this being a game to avoid.
WoO does have it as about a 1% house edge and this number actually goes down with more decks! How? With more decks your occurrences of free splits goes up. For this reason any house who initially spread this game with a CSM likely doesn't any more. A 2-deck game is actually worse than an 8-deck game to the (modified for free bet) BS player.
Now to counting: since you are being more aggressive w doubles (since they are free) the times you have a large bet out and double you are more likely to draw aces and faces - not different than standard BJ but the number of occurrences goes up.
I would like to have a computer run the numbers but I also feel that the push 22 side bet is profitable on extreme negative counts - tough to draw to 25 or 26 w fewer tens in deck.

[Bushie]

Now to counting: since you are being more aggressive w doubles (since they are free) the times you have a large bet out and double you are more likely to draw aces and faces - not different than standard BJ but the number of occurrences goes up.

And how would you determine when to place a large bet exactly? It's played from a CSM.

Free bets would only serve to reduce standard deviation, as you're not risking additional units when doubling/splitting. As to how much you would have to run some kind of sim.

Its still a negative expectation game however. The worst game I've ever seen is BJ "Plus" (dealer push on 22) H17 dealt from a CSM. They had some free bet nonsense too but I wouldn't touch that game with a 10 foot stick..

[Meistro123]

I would like to have a computer run the numbers but I also feel that the push 22 side bet is profitable on extreme negative counts

Actually the push 22 side bet doesn't really correspond well to the count but it is definitely beatable. See this link :

https://discountgambling.net/2013/08...viejas-casino/