Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Bettin side counts

  1. #1
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,570


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Bettin side counts

    Not just +1 but a huge one. What the hell does a tractor driver from Missouri know about Vegas?

    Do the math. Ryemo has been playing 3 years. Got kicked out of his hometown in 100K hands. That alone will take at least 1 year. Goes to Vegas 2 or 3 times a year for 3 days on average. Get's 86ed twice a week or trip. So he's been 86ed out of somewhere between 12 and 27 casinos in Vegas. Yet in 3 day trips, he has seen them all? Of course, he came right out of the gate playing large stakes. Afterall, he is Mr. Magnanimous.

    He has a business and family, leaves both for stretches of two weeks because now he has to drive 3 to 4 hours to get to the nearest casino. Of course, Mr. M will have to hit all 750 (stat accordingly to Stealth) because he get's the boot 100 times a year or more. His plan is to be done in 3 to 5 years and have his fortune? Problem is, even if this were possible or true, it's self serving because it's only going to fuck things up for those that remain.

    Yet, according to him and the other fruits in Flash's salad, there are "legions" of these self professed "legends."

    Yep, that sounds about like the typical strategy of a big shot midwest farmer. Leverage the shit out of those that are sufficiently content, build it, and buy others out quickly. Of course, you'd want them to believe you are helping them. Then sell out to corporations make your fortune so the small farmer can longer have a game in which to compete.

    Even with all this, he still has time and is inclined to fret over the number of posts I made and now the ones I delete. That, my friends, is dried fruit or a nut that belongs in a cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post

    +1
    ... Posts #16 and #17
    Knowledge is recognizing the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. Post 16 and 17 are just noise from Flash's salad of fruits.

    Last edited by moses; 03-08-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  2. #2


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    O fer heavens sake. I'd worked all day and half the night before I discovered the Running Count box was checked in Modify Current Strategy. Strange results to say the least.

    Now, I've ran Sims two ways, correctly with True Count.

    Both have the primary count of 2 at .5. 3467 at 1. 5 at 1.5. vs 8,9,10 at -1.

    1. The Betting Side Counts. I list all the tags that go into it. 2 at .5. 3467 at 1. 5. at 1.5. 9 at -.5 10 -1. A -1.5.

    2.) Every tag is 0. Except 8 is 1. 9 is .5 and A is -1.5. The idea is too offset the primary count to the Betting count.

    Both Sims offer similar results. But #2 has a slightly higher SCORE. But also a higher large bet percentage.

    Before I go to the next step, I'd value the opinion of those with CV Data knowledge as to which is the correct application.

    The first thing you should start with is switching your tag for 2 and 7 in the primary... +1 for 2 and .5 for 7...This has a much better BC!...And Yes! Use the TC mode!

    MY Gosh! Which one is your Primary, and which one is your secondary again? Its tough to read!
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-15-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Moses,

    If your going to go through the trouble of learning/using two counts(with all due respect) at least make sure they're worth the effort...Here a two. One( My fav.) is for the RPC count and the other is for Wong halves players(full mode x2)..Personally, i think you should use your Primary count as your Betting count as well...Because for one, it can always be used for Multiple deck by itself...Second. Adding a secondary (playing count) should only be used/added for those who can use RPC and Wong-halves effortlessly and want to add more PE/Style when playing pitch games and more importantly you never have to use them if you dont want too while still maintaining your Primary count as your solo count..

    RPC:
    Code:
    
    122221  00  -2   -2
    
        +1      -1  (+3)
    
    122222  00  -3  (+1)
    
    BC: .9837
    PE:.6801
    IC: .947

    Halves(x2):
    Code:
    
    122321  0-1  -2   -2
    
        +1       -1  (+3)
    
    122322  0-1  -3  (+1)
    
    BC: .9919
    PE:..6941
    IC: .9015


    HalvesVer2(x2):
    Code:
    
     122321  0-1  -2   -2
    
     -1   1  1    -1  (+3)
    
     112322  1-1  -3  (+1)
    
    BC: .9919
    PE:..70
    IC: .9158

    Halves Ver3:

    Code:
    
    122321  0-1  -2   -2
    
    
         1  1    -1  (+2)
    
    
    122322  1-1  -3   (0)
    Bc:.919
    Pe:.6916
    Ic:.9014


    As you can see in Halves Version 2 you can take it even one step further and subtract -1 from the 3 an ADD+1 to the 8(same works for RPC) for a Perfect Playing efficiency of .70..Of Course you dont half to do this, but rather just "omit" the 8 all together "as shown" in Version 1 and take a (easier) an "non-linear" approach and just side-count the 8's for an even Higher Pe "inaddtion" to using the Primary counts for Splitting XX's and doubling on 89 n 10...

    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-19-2017 at 02:17 PM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  4. #4


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    Which count is best?

    Sim A. SCORE 24.34. WR $20.24 DI 4.93 large bet 9.58%. Win 50.51%. N0. 41089. Session win 58.27%.

    SIM B. SCORE 25.55. WR $21.40. DI 5.06. Large Bet 10.70%. Won 50.38%. Session win 58.69%. NO 39134.

    A common trend is everything goes up when the large bet percentage increase. 10% is pushing it.
    Lol, i guess thats the million dollar question..I dont have alot of CVdata experience, nor do i know exactly what you mean by "best?" What i do know for starters however, is that you would have to have at least a fair amount of indices to work with..20 or 30 would work nicely...Also, theres another problem...I dont think Cvdata has the ability to switch between counts depending on the hand "in play"...For example the Primary count is the count that has a higher efficiency for Doubling A9 while the Playing count has a higher efficiency for doubling on 11s...I dont think Cvdata has the option/abilty to switch between counts depending on the hand "in play" If it does, then we could make it doable, but still im not sure..Do you know? or know how this would be accomplished?

    Also i added a Version 3 of wong halves..
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  5. #5
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    I dont think Cvdata has the ability to switch between counts depending on the hand "in play"
    You can use the multi-parameter count function.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    Jack, Moses specifically researches Reno single deck BJ. His advice doesn't translate beyond that game. He fails to mention that fact all the time and no doubt has hurt many multi-deck players that listened to him.
    Noted for future reference..Nevertheless, i am aware of the fact that what were doing isnt necessary to get an edge on the game and may be on the overkill side..But at the same time, i feel Moses like Myself, enjoys the exploration of the game and trying out one experiment to the next(and i know you do too) however subtle or eccentric it may be.. I dont feel it to be in total vain..For Moses, it could be the difference if hes sleeping in the doghouse or not(JK), but for me i just enjoy the sport and recreation of it. All the while learning a few things along the way..As always though, its always good to have second opinions and others thoughts on the subject such as yours..Even in the Blackjack info days, i still recall...



    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    1.) 1 deck straight up
    2.) H17. Hard DD 10.11. No Das
    3.) 65.4%
    5.) 1 hand at $25. 2 at $75 as close to 10% frequency as possible.
    7.) Various. The CV Data Index Generator is used for generating the same indices for each count system.
    4,6,8.) All are the same. 8 is governed according to heat and preferential shuffle restrictions.
    Moses, i apologize im unable to help you with Sim results at the moment until My other computer if/can be repaired-Its a waiting game! In the meantime i can only use the functions of "demo mode" unless i go ahead and decide to upgrade to Cvdata Version 5..

    Meanwhile are you sure your using the betting side count function correctly and if so, do the results seem to be accurate and matching up to your expectatons?
    Also, if your are indeed using halves with sidecount.. Version 3 seems to be the most practical..Its the one that appears to havethe best balance between practicality and power..Make sure to check it out! Also, if you choose to use the multi-parameter function its essential you know which count you use these hands for..It could have significant difference in the final results..And if you plan on using a side count, i like to start at 0/10 but you could use 0/20 so the secondary will never go into the negative range...
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-17-2017 at 10:00 AM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    You can use the multi-parameter count function.
    Im sorry Norm, but i dont think the "Multi-Paramater" function supports what im trying to do..The MP function either side counts 1 card or combines all the side-counted cards for an overall balance, right? Just so were on the same page here im wanting/trying to use a "Multi-Strategy" to combine "Two different playing counts" ..For example one count for doublin on 10 while using the other count for doubling on 11.Unfortunately "Multi-strategy" doesnt support this feature either....I thought maybe you could use the "Multi-tracking" feature and just compare the differences between the two(or indivdiual sims) but im just not sure? Any thoughts on this or am i missing something?
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-22-2017 at 12:50 AM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Oh ya, Ace-reckoned counts like Wong-halves has a much better efficiency for doubling on 8,9 and 10(splitting XX's) than the ones without, but it also hurts doubling on 11, Soft doubles, insurance and Hit/Stand decisions...Thats why you need to flip your Ace in ace reckoned counts such as Wong-halves(X2) if you desire a Highr Pe..Ive experimented with many(head-scratch) and have shown really good results with two in particualar..Such as:

    Code:
    1223210-1-2-2
    
         1   -1 3
    
    1223220-1-3(1)
    
    * Example2
    Code:
    1223210-1-2-2
    
         1  1-1 2
    
    1223220 0-3(0)
    


    So now you see why you can/would use your betting/primary count to ALSO double on 8,9&10 and Split 10's, while you would use the Secondary for Ins. 11s and ALL other hands....The other Version is to ADD +1 to the "9" tag INSTEAD of the 7 to balance the 9 back to "0" for better insurance efficiency and H12 decisions, which are critical with Maxbets....
    *Or better yet Tag them at +1 each A+2 Example2.
    Note: Also how you've taken Wong Halvles 11 point count and Mysteriously covnerted it into a 13 point count for perfect index and TC resolution--Awesome!

    Now Moses heres an Experiment if your up for it of course... And as a guide (or at least what i do) on how to go about setting up your sims, as a reference for comparing notes...

    Rules are un-important but i would suggest 2 decks H17, DAS, Splitx4 with about 2/3 pen(Shuffle point 34)..1 player per 100 hands per hour..But before you do this run the "index generator" and use the Big 63(add 11v7,8,9,X) for the Playing Count ONLY(A-X)>11223220-1-3

    "Quick and Dirty" Will Suffice for Indexes..

    Once
    Finished with the "index generator" switch confifuration back to "standard" and prepare to run your sims ..ADD the Playing count as your "playing strategy" (with Big63 indexes) and in your "Betting Side Counts" tag the Ace -3 and the 7 -1 and the X's +1 to bring it back to the wong-halves count.. You can experiment with your Bet spreads as you wish but you may say see very surprising results with +1> 5 units +2> 10 units +3>15 units. Your Score damn near matches your WR..
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-23-2017 at 01:42 PM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  9. #9
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    Im sorry Norm, but i dont think the "Multi-Paramater" function supports what im trying to do..The MP function either side counts 1 card or combines all the side-counted cards for an overall balance, right? Just so were on the same page here im wanting/trying to use a "Multi-Strategy" to combine "Two different playing counts" ..For example one count for doublin on 10 while using the other count for doubling on 11.Unfortunately "Multi-strategy" doesnt support this feature either....I thought maybe you could use the "Multi-tracking" feature and just compare the differences between the two(or indivdiual sims) but im just not sure? Any thoughts on this or am i missing something?
    You use one count as the strategy and the difference between the two counts in the MP count. You can then use an MP table, setting the indices to 0 for plays you want to use with one count and 1 for plays using the second count. Not exactly what it's designed for; but should work. You will get very little gain.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #10


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I like Perfect Insurance. I would think it's even more important for those that have a high large bet frequency. That is the center point of my game. It's like having a 7' Center on a HS team.
    Look at my previous post in Example 2(re-eddited)..If you Added x2 your secondary to the primary and with a side-count of the 8's if would give you perfect insurance...100% 222222(2)2-4
    Last edited by Jack Jackson; 07-23-2017 at 01:43 PM.
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

Similar Threads

  1. Side counts and Zen
    By DatabaseGuy in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 08-31-2016, 02:45 PM
  2. side counts
    By luckyned in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-02-2015, 10:31 AM
  3. Interchangeable level 1 counts with side counts on A,2,7, and 9
    By Blitzkrieg in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-07-2014, 11:00 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.