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Thread: Side Counting 7's

  1. #1


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    Side Counting 7's

    I use RPC / FELT-F. I have recently started side counting 7's for a side bet.

    My question is, is there anything else I can do with the information from my side counted 7's? RPC tags already count 7 as +1, but I figure since I have this extra information now on the 7, maybe I can use it elsewhere in the game.

    Thanks!

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    Sevens are the most important card other than Aces to Side-Count.

    See Peter Griffin, PhD:


    MailSnapz003.jpg

    The above table shows a weak and an ultra-powerful count, both LEVEL ONE.

    I have computed the value for adjusting play for the 7's for Hi-Opt II.

    I use the adjustments in Pitch Games exclusively.

    Not only are 7's crucial with your common stiff hands

    but are important when the dealer displays an 8 or 9.

    Think about it, then contact me.
    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 07-11-2017 at 08:04 AM.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    See Peter Griffin, PhD:

    MailSnapz003.jpg
    For the life of me, after reading, and re-reading, and re-reading, and ....., I never could quite understand how Dr. Griffin determined that with the Gordon Count, the "Auxiliary Grouping" of 6,7,8 rendered a stronger PE (.767) than the PE including the "Auxiliary Grouping" of 6,7,8 and 9 (.740). Obviously, we can't ask him (unless we have some mental mediums in the house), but perhaps Don S., Doghand, Gronbog or some of the other most mathematically inclined might be able to chime in and provide a clear explanation.
    "Your honor, with all due respect: if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it."

    Fictitious Boston Attorney Frank Galvin (Paul Newman - January 26, 1925 - September 26, 2008) in The Verdict, 1982, lambasting Trial Judge Hoyle (Milo Donal O'Shea - June 2, 1926 - April 2, 2013) - http://imdb.com/title/tt0084855/

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    Thanks for the thoughts on this. 300 posts to determine if Zee took insurance correctly and I get two responses (that are sincerely appreciated ZMF and Frank). Unfortunately this actually has something to do with the game, so I must have been mistaken thinking it would get some traction.
    Last edited by refinery; 07-11-2017 at 02:44 PM. Reason: now with more snark

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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts on this. 300 posts to determine if Zee took insurance correctly and I get two responses (that are sincerely appreciated ZMF and Frank). Unfortunately this actually has something to do with the game, so I must have been mistaken thinking it would get some traction.
    If you play HiLo, like Zee, don't use ANY side counts, you will get a lot of responses. There are hardly any, probably less than 5% of all AP's that count 7's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    "less than 5% of all AP's ... count 7's."
    Your thoroughly incorrectly usage of the term, "A.P.", is rather laughable.

    The statement to have meaning asks what % of Professionals Side Count 7's.

    I did a quick check of the Pros that I know and it was 67% but I only checked

    out a total of 12 very serious players and 8 agreed with me that the 7's empower

    their play of pitch games. Of course 8 of 12 is an insignificant result, and even you

    can agree with that, even without any understanding of probability theory and the

    validity accompanying anything mathematical, beyond simple arithmetic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    Your thoroughly incorrectly usage of the term, "A.P.", is rather laughable.

    The statement to have meaning asks what % of Professionals Side Count 7's.

    I did a quick check of the Pros that I know and it was 67% but I only checked

    out a total of 12 very serious players and 8 agreed with me that the 7's empower

    their play of pitch games. Of course 8 of 12 is an insignificant result, and even you

    can agree with that, even without any understanding of probability theory and the

    validity accompanying anything mathematical, beyond simple arithmetic.

    You are being ridiculous. Among the major count systems out there (HiLo, KO, Hi Opt 1, Hi Opt 2, Omega II, Zen etc,) how many call for a side count of 7's? I have also read a ton and f books, none called for a side count of 7.

    I am not disputing that it's valuable, I am simply stating that the thread did not get traction because few of the subscribers to the forum count 7's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post

    "... few of the subscribers to the forum count 7's."
    I couldn't agree with you more; as there are only about
    a half dozen Pro Players in regular attendance here.
    I know of zero (0) casual or recreational players who Side
    Count Sevens (7s). Amazingly, that holds for Aces as well.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    You are being ridiculous. Among the major count systems out there (HiLo, KO, Hi Opt 1, Hi Opt 2, Omega II, Zen etc,) how many call for a side count of 7's? I have also read a ton and f books, none called for a side count of 7.

    I am not disputing that it's valuable, I am simply stating that the thread did not get traction because few of the subscribers to the forum count 7's.
    Zzzzeeeeee
    Sidecounting 7's is not a primary part of any count system that I am aware of. Sidecounting aces is a primary part of ace neutral systems. Sidecounting 7's is secondary to that.

    Now, Flash has said, and he is right, that 7 sidecounting enhances his pitch games. It increases his playin g efficiency. He has also said that he does not sidecount 7's on shoe games. Simple reason for that.

    Now, for you, sidecounting aces at dd is something you should consider as an add on to hi lo. To make it simple for you, consider the Zee method if sudecounting.

    Left nut =1
    Right nut =2
    Yank your petzel =3
    Repeat 1 cycle should assist you in your dd sidecounting endeavours.

    The race to mediocrity certainly has its pitfalls.

  10. #10


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    I Checked out a couple of the Illustrious 18 for ya, but unfortunately the 7's dont do much for 15, 16 vs X but does add some signifcant value for Plyers 12, 13 and 14 against any up card...Even the crucial 12 vs 2 which kinda surprised me since the 7 can easily give the dealer 9 or 19..Heres a snap shot of 16 v X..2 deck game..One Ev is with no 7s removed and the other is with Fours sevens removed..Its makes no dfference! Probably because of dealers pat 17..

    16vX.jpg
    http://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Zzzzeeeeee
    Now, for you, sidecounting aces at dd is something you should consider as an add on to hi lo. To make it simple for you, consider the Zee method if sudecounting.
    Serious question: How to use the Ace side count in adjusting Hi/Lo?

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xothan View Post
    Serious question: How to use the Ace side count in adjusting Hi/Lo?
    As hi lo is an ace reckoned count, ace side count is not used for betting correlation. It does, however, enhance playing efficiency. Accordingly, ASC is really not much value at shoe games, but does enhance pitch game performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Jackson View Post
    " ... does add some signifcant value for Plyers 12, 13 and 14 against any up card...Even the crucial 12 vs 2"
    Here is a homework assignment for you J.J.

    Figure out how many ways the player can have a 2 card (hard) hand of 12, 13, 14.

    You will soon see that, as such, the 7's have value for MOST of your hands, while

    that does not even consider the value of 7's when the dealer is displaying a 9 or an 8



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