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Thread: Minimum session bankroll..

  1. #1


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    Minimum session bankroll..

    Need a pros opinion of what a minimum session bankroll before they sit at a table. I ended up with some friends to listen to a concert still a casino bar...a band, rather. The friends decided to walk in the casino, wanted to play BJ. Some had as little as $100, I had about $600 but I did not want to play because I felt sitting even at a $10 min. 6 deck, H17, standard rules table, the $600 was insufficient.

    Got me thinking what might be the minimum $$ in your pocket before you would sit down at a $10 or $25 min., 6 deck or DD game. The answer might help some of the newbies as well.

    A related question, if in a losing session, when will you quit....when you have lost your entire session bankroll or when you have insufficient funds left to either recover or complete the session? For example, I started one DD session with only $3000, was down $1400. Pit brought new decks of cards, a break while they went through the protocols and I decided that I just did not have enough on me, left.

    My own normal requirement is a minimum of $1000 for $10 game and $3500 for a DD game session bankroll.

  2. #2


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    i bring 40 max bets . . 2 hours or less session i have brought less like 20 max bets . it is a decent session roll . i am talking 4 hours session . There maybe other opportunities as well so i would never bring less than 40 max bets , well almost never.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    i bring 40 max bets . . 2 hours or less session i have brought less like 20 max bets . it is a decent session roll . i am talking 4 hours session . There maybe other opportunities as well so i would never bring less than 40 max bets , well almost never.
    Interesting. Pulled out 2-5k packs, to beef up the 3k on me for a 2-3hour game tomorrow at a 25-1000 game tomorrow. Only playing the 1 session, as wife is going to visit an elderly aunt, and then we're driving home again. Normally carry double that amount as those trips are usually 3 days.

    It was a bit overboard for the game I played about 60 miles away today. Was half shoed on site, hawked like no tomorrow, only allowed me a 5-200 table, so I guess you could say I was a bit over capitalized. But I make money there, don't abuse them to bad.

  4. #4


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    You want to start with at least 30 max bets, just so that you can cover any of the normal fluctuations from day to day play. Assuming DAS & re-splitting is allowed you should quit or resize if you get to five max bets or below assuming you are playing only one hand. The probability of going from one bet to five is fairly remote, so you can accept that in this eventuality you will end up making the second best choice on the fifth bet. This does not significantly impact your edge because the probability of going from one bet to five is so remote. But having only three or four max bets is too risky.

    Without attempting to get into the math and just guessing I'd say seven max bets is the minimum you would want to have on you before placing two simultaneous maximum wagers.

    To get to five bets you need to split and then split again. Well first of all pairs are pretty rare. You are only going to get a pair roughly 1 in every 13 times or 7.7% of the time.

    But 85.1929 % of the time that you get a pair you will not end up re-resplitting (92.3% squared)

    So the probability of resplitting is 14.8071% * 7.7% or 1.14%. But even if you do end up re-splitting you still need to find at least two doubles (this is going to depend on what card you are splitting and what card the dealer has. there could be as many as five cards that give you a double or none at all) or a fourth split (21.37%) and a double.

    And of course you don't split every pair. In fact you split less than half the time that you do get a pair. So that further reduces the likeliness of going to five bets.



    But back to the original topic, aside from the five bet minimum it is perfectly fine to start a session with only 15 max bets if you are having cash flow problems because of ATM limits and you are not near a bank or whatever. Putting in volume is a key component of being a winning player. Having an appreciable risk or even a likely probability of busting your session roll is completely fine and tapping out from heavy losses is good cover. Quitting because you only have 10 max bets is being overly squeamish, if otherwise conditions are favourable and dictate that you should play. On the other hand having a loss limit has many other advantages.
    Last edited by Meistro123; 07-08-2017 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #5


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    Here are some trip numbers from BJRM

    Assume double deck game, H17DAS, pen 60%, spread $25 to $200, 4 hour playing session, and 75 hands per hour.

    2 out of 3 times you will be between -$1,169 and +$1,440.
    95 out of 100 times you will be between -$2,474 and +$2,745.
    399 out of 400 times you will be between -$3,778 and +$4,050.

    With a $1,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 40.84% of time.
    With a $2,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 10.64% of time.
    With a $3,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 1.68% of time.
    With a $4,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 0.16% of time.
    With a $5,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 0.01% of time.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    With a $1,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 40.84% of time.
    With a $2,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 10.64% of time.
    With a $3,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 1.68% of time.
    With a $4,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 0.16% of time.
    With a $5,000 trip bankroll you will tap out 0.01% of time.
    hence the 40 max bets . there maybe some "really good" opportunities . i have numerous times lost 30 plus max bets . of course they were longer than 2 hours and were heads up. easily reached 200 = rounds per hour

  7. #7


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    most people want to think they are great blackjack player . deck eastimation, counting error , ,error due to fatigue , cover , ramping limitation could put you at higher risk than sim indicate. i know i am not one of those people.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    hence the 40 max bets . there maybe some "really good" opportunities . i have numerous times lost 30 plus max bets . of course they were longer than 2 hours and were heads up. easily reached 200 = rounds per hour
    40 max bets is overkill. If you lose 30 max bets (which is probably a sizeable chunk of your BR) in one session you should probably leave and reassess your game at home.

    Not only that, but consider safety concerns as well when carrying large amounts of cash with you.

  9. #9


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    you sound contradicting

    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I have found dealers that give you back your entire bet when you surrender and dealers that cut off less than half a deck and deal a round after the cut card comes out because they normally deal baccarat but the casino was short on dealers or dealers that count the ace as a 1 or 11 for the players but always an 11 for the dealer so the dealer busted often when hitting and getting an ace and many more that would make you play as long as the opportunity lasts. Sometimes you get a dealer that does several things, any of which would have you stay for the duration of his/her shift.
    So it means more opportunities( meaning everything) therefore probably requiring more $$

  10. #10


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    love the baccarat dealers.

  11. #11


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    Still, it depends on how many max bets your BR consists of and what RoR you're operating under.

    30 max bets in one session for full-time pros might be nothing if they're operating at 1-2% RoR, if not less. For the majority who don't have such a bank then 30 max bets could be a very substantial percentage of their BR.

    You might as well advise them to bring along half their whole bank for one session in this case, which would be a very unwise thing to do.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Three View Post
    I used to do that when I had a $10K BR after really screwing up by not bringing enough.
    As did I when I started out.

    But that was when I needed to bring that amount in order to withstand the swings that can occur within one session. But when you re-scale your bets upwards after your BR grows (depending on what kind of RoR you wish to operate under), the need to bring inordinate amounts of max bets is lowered if your stashed bank holds enough reserve.

    And then there's also mental and practical concerns too. For one, we're human, not robots. Losing thousands of dollars in one session can take its toll on our psyche, despite the fact that we know that if we're on top of our game and are properly financed we should come out ahead. It can throw you off your game and make you "chase the money" which might lead to mistakes.

    Secondly, security. Carrying large amounts of cash with you is risky regardless. What if you get robbed? Your wallet/bag gets stolen? Someone sees how much cash you've got with you at the casino and they jump you in the car park afterwards? The latter is not unheard of.

    If anything, I'd say the size of your session BR depends on your circumstances. There's no "one size fits all" approach when discussing it.

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