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Thread: Soft Hand Double Down Questions

  1. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Pontoon is another game, not Blackjack.
    It's a variant, with Pontoon actually just being the non-patented version of SP21 with NHC and some minor rule variations.

    I thought it was clear what I was talking about, with it being mentioned in the OP and all that..

  2. #28
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    I'm not going to get into Pontoon as I don't know the Strategy for that game. I'll just make a general comment about the 3 plays discussed here, double A8, A9 and splitting 10-10. I double A8 all of the time and it has never been the reason why I was either backed off or skills checked. It's basic strategy for those of us who came up playing single deck games to double A8. Just do it, while nothing is certain, 99% of the time that play will generate no heat at all. Just make sure the dealer doesn't pass you by, have your bet in the circle before the dealer gets to you and make sure the dealer knows you want to double.

    For A9 I have had this play get heat....but the heat isn't as bad as splitting 10-10. The High-Low Index for A9 and 10-10 is +4/+5/+6 vs 6,5,4. Mathprof (RIP) has an article in the BJ21 Archives on Splitting 1010 and risk/EV considerations. He suggests bumping your index up to +7/+8/+9 and says you will wind up doing the play far less often but garner a significant portion of the EV you would get if you used an EV maximizing index. (Sorry, I don't remember the exact percentages). I know many players who split 10-10 all the time and do it very aggressively, even doubling down on soft 21 if the count is high enough, and they don't get backed off much more often than anyone else using a more conservative strategy, but the devil is in the details. If I was winning and felt it was certain that I was going to get skills checked I'd probably skip the 10-10 splits. If I was losing and about to leave and the count was really high I'd probably chance it. It would also depend on the casino and it's overall tolerance and sharpness. I prefer never to think in absolute terms (like I'm always going to Split 10-10 or never split 10-10). I just do it when I think I can get away with it and I prefer a count high enough so that if I split and catch another 10 I can split again and I will continue to do it until the count drops back to a True +4. So I have the high trigger and use the original count for when to stop splitting. (I use the Zen Count and use a TC of +13 for 10-10 split vs 6.)

  3. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    It's a variant, with Pontoon ...
    Pontoon is not a Blackjack variant. It is another game.

  4. #30
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Pontoon is not a Blackjack variant. It is another game.
    I really wouldn't put it that way. I list over 100 rule variations in blackjack on this site. I have fallen behind in that effort as we are probably nearing 200 by now. BJ and Pontoon/SP21 strategies are developed in the same manners, share the most important rules, share the most important concepts, can even use the same counting strategies with minor alterations. When it comes to actual playing strategies, I could argue that the differences between how you approach single-deck and multi-deck blackjack play are as different as how you approach typical blackjack and Pontoon.

    Also realize, that the starting pointing in analyzing a new game for opportunities is to look at a related game. Pontoon has the exact same weaknesses as BJ.

    But then, I have called single-deck BJ a different game.
    Last edited by Norm; 06-30-2017 at 05:03 PM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  5. #31


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    There is more scope for play variation in Pontoon than BJ and indices are far more powerful as the count rises.

    Spanish 21 in America is played with a Hole Card, therefore indices generated for any particular count assume that the dealer has already checked for a natural. In Australia, Pontoon is played without a Hole Card so you cannot just use the same indices and to do so would lead to suboptimal play and results. BB+1 and OBBO provide some compensation.
    Casino Enemy No.1

  6. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I really wouldn't put it that way. I list over 100 rule variations in blackjack on this site. I have fallen behind in that effort as we are probably nearing 200 by now. BJ and Pontoon/SP21 strategies are developed in the same manners, share the most important rules, share the most important concepts, can even use the same counting strategies with minor alterations. When it comes to actual playing strategies, I could argue that the differences between how you approach single-deck and multi-deck blackjack play are as different as how you approach typical blackjack and Pontoon.

    Also realize, that the starting pointing in analyzing a new game for opportunities is to look at a related game. Pontoon has the exact same weaknesses as BJ.

    But then, I have called single-deck BJ a different game.
    Many new players don't understand the complexity of Pontoon and its own many variations. If told this is just another Blackjack, many just use the existent Blackjack indexes and failed miserably. Better define Pontoon in the new category.

  7. #33
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    I missed the pontoon reference, sorry. I don't know pontoon, I live across the pond and up the river or something.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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