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Thread: Soft Hand Double Down Questions

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    He wouldn't do it because it's a bad move for cover. Only idiots and counters split 10's or double A9. I doubled A8 v 6 and a pit boss thought I was counting, so perhaps A8 can similarly be added to that list, though to a lesser degree since it is a BS double in some games. There are indexes for doubling A8 and A9 in your game against the better dealer bust cards, I just don't know them.
    I have the indices for doubling A,8 v 6 and 5 and it pretty much correlates with what I thought. The deviations for A,9 doubles arent listed, so its either an absolute no-no or the author just didnt consider them.

  2. #15
    Senior Member Bubbles's Avatar
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    I thought about what Meistro123 said. The double for A9 would act the exact same even with your rules, so the index should be the same as normal.

    the indices may be high enough with too much heat your author didn't consider them. I use HiOpt2 and the index I use to double A9 v 6 is +9 and v 5 is +10. The correct pivot point is slightly sooner in some games though. In hi-lo the same indices would be closer to +5.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    "The deviations for A,9 doubles arent listed."
    The indices for doubling "Soft 20" (Ace-9) is generally identical to that of splitting Face Cards.

    Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey.



  4. #17


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    Knowing when to double A8 and A9 is pretty important. Just like splitting tens this is a play that has tremendous risk but also a ton of gain especially in really high counts.

  5. #18


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    "Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey."

    Since when??

    Don


  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    The indices for doubling "Soft 20" (Ace-9) is generally identical to that of splitting Face Cards.

    Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey.


    Yeah. And the index of doubling A8 against 5 or 6 is +1. (Assuming TC is derived from RC dividing the number of half-decks for level 2 system).

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Yeah. And the index of doubling A8 against 5 or 6 is +1. (Assuming TC is derived from RC dividing the number of half-decks for level 2 system).
    I would approach this double the same as I would 8v6. Even though not risk averse for me, I would treat it as such, and double only on higher counts. Like 8v6 where index fir double us +1, it's to easy a move for the eye or pit to pick off. Further, long term gain at +1 is minimal. At higher counts, if you're so inclined, the percentage of total expected value is lucrative enough to make the double worthwhile. FWIW.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    I would approach this double the same as I would 8v6. Even though not risk averse for me, I would treat it as such, and double only on higher counts. Like 8v6 where index fir double us +1, it's to easy a move for the eye or pit to pick off. Further, long term gain at +1 is minimal. At higher counts, if you're so inclined, the percentage of total expected value is lucrative enough to make the double worthwhile. FWIW.
    It's also one of those basic doubles, for where you're unknown, to have a basic strategy card on you which shows A8 v5 or 6 as a double, and to consult it prior to doing so.

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Yeah. And the index of doubling A8 against 5 or 6 is +1. (Assuming TC is derived from RC dividing the number of half-decks for level 2 system).
    It's higher than that. I'm not sure if I should post the listed index number here for the game's security, but it's higher than +1 for SP21/Pontoon when using a level 2 count (modified SMC in this case).

    Like Zen said, it makes sense that the index should be a little lower when doubling A9, and the split 10,10 index is about right, if not a blip higher than the standard split 10s index (which requires a MONUMENTAL count in SP21/Pontoon btw).

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    It's higher than that. I'm not sure if I should post the listed index number here for the game's security, but it's higher than +1 for SP21/Pontoon when using a level 2 count (modified SMC in this case).

    Like Zen said, it makes sense that the index should be a little lower when doubling A9, and the split 10,10 index is about right, if not a blip higher than the standard split 10s index (which requires a MONUMENTAL count in SP21/Pontoon btw).
    Nope. A8 v 5/6 double is the best double, of all non-BS double. You only need TC +1 to do that. 8 v 6, you need TC +2. 8 v 5, you need TC +3. (Assuming TC is calculated by the number of half-decks. So for 6D, initially you divide RC by 12. I do so to make level 1 and level 2 counting systems to have similar and comparable indexes.)

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Nope. A8 v 5/6 double is the best double, of all non-BS double. You only need TC +1 to do that. 8 v 6, you need TC +2. 8 v 5, you need TC +3. (Assuming TC is calculated by the number of half-decks. So for 6D, initially you divide RC by 12. I do so to make level 1 and level 2 counting systems to have similar and comparable indexes.)
    Don't think you're getting it, though technically, you have a point.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Nope. A8 v 5/6 double is the best double, of all non-BS double. You only need TC +1 to do that. 8 v 6, you need TC +2. 8 v 5, you need TC +3. (Assuming TC is calculated by the number of half-decks. So for 6D, initially you divide RC by 12. I do so to make level 1 and level 2 counting systems to have similar and comparable indexes.)
    Not correct, as you go by the composition of the hand rather than the actual value. In Pontoon, 9 v 5 double, as in a 9 total NOT consisting of an ace, is +1. That is for a level 2 balanced count such as SMC. 8 v 6 I'm not sure about, but the 9 v 4 double is +4 which would probably make a 8 v 5/6 index very high I'd assume. And besides, you can't double on 8 with the rules I listed anyway and there's no indices listed for it either.

    Edit: actually, I played it tonight and you can double on any hand. Hmm..

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    Not correct, as you go by the composition of the hand rather than the actual value. In Pontoon, 9 v 5 double, as in a 9 total NOT consisting of an ace, is +1. That is for a level 2 balanced count such as SMC. 8 v 6 I'm not sure about, but the 9 v 4 double is +4 which would probably make a 8 v 5/6 index very high I'd assume. And besides, you can't double on 8 with the rules I listed anyway and there's no indices listed for it either.

    Edit: actually, I played it tonight and you can double on any hand. Hmm..
    Pontoon is another game, not Blackjack.

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