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Thread: Facial Recognition and its effect on Advantage Play

  1. #1


    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Facial Recognition and its effect on Advantage Play

    I am sure some of you have seen the recent news reports of facial recognition equipment that is now being tested in some airports in the US to replace boarding passes, paper or electronic. You simply walk up to a screen and it bio metrically identifies you. Generally using your passport photo.

    Many of us are certain of this technology in a growing number of casinos as I have been ID'd and subsequently asked to not play or leave when there was no other rational explanation. SLS, Ceasars and Cosmopolitan on the Vegas strip are high probability candidates. (forgive the gratuitous swipe)

    I believe this technology will be implemented at an exponential growth rate in the casino industry and we all will be subjected to unassisted identification.

    There are many discussion on here regarding the use of players cards and there benefits for stuff and cover. The existence of the casino databases that hold either drivers license or passport data and photos will make most players well known in theses environments. Total Rewards has over 40,000,000 records in it and that is only one of the systems, are you in one or more of them? OSN and other surveillance systems will become obsolete for identification.

    The AP community has professed the downfall of blackjack for years, while it may have deteriorated, it remains difficult, but somewhat viable. Facial recognition will be the next big blow. There are already casinos that will control your betting and often charge a commission if you do not have a card (read, they have your ID and photo). For new players, especially AP types, the cost of being ID'd is going up. You will be able to "get away with it" for much shorter periods of time. Getting blown up in one store may, at some point in the future, stop your play everywhere.

    We can expect the rate of its implementation to match the casinos willingness to spend capital to replace existing equipment. They usually will not until the existing equipment is fully depreciated and technically obsolete. If it is a new casino you can expect facial recognition, in some form to be present at the opening. I predict five years will produce major inroads into wide scale implementation and 10 years it will be a standard.

    What interactions have you had with this technology?

    Certainly my message of gloom and despair overlooks the ingenuity of AP's to find ways to beat the house, but the game and its access are changing and we better pay attention.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  2. #2


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    I am sure some of you have seen the recent news reports of facial recognition equipment that is now being tested in some airports in the US to replace boarding passes, paper or electronic. You simply walk up to a screen and it bio metrically identifies you. Generally using your passport photo.

    Many of us are certain of this technology in a growing number of casinos as I have been ID'd and subsequently asked to not play or leave when there was no other rational explanation. SLS, Ceasars and Cosmopolitan on the Vegas strip are high probability candidates. (forgive the gratuitous swipe)

    I believe this technology will be implemented at an exponential growth rate in the casino industry and we all will be subjected to unassisted identification.

    There are many discussion on here regarding the use of players cards and there benefits for stuff and cover. The existence of the casino databases that hold either drivers license or passport data and photos will make most players well known in theses environments. Total Rewards has over 40,000,000 records in it and that is only one of the systems, are you in one or more of them? OSN and other surveillance systems will become obsolete for identification.

    The AP community has professed the downfall of blackjack for years, while it may have deteriorated, it remains difficult, but somewhat viable. Facial recognition will be the next big blow. There are already casinos that will control your betting and often charge a commission if you do not have a card (read, they have your ID and photo). For new players, especially AP types, the cost of being ID'd is going up. You will be able to "get away with it" for much shorter periods of time. Getting blown up in one store may, at some point in the future, stop your play everywhere.

    We can expect the rate of its implementation to match the casinos willingness to spend capital to replace existing equipment. They usually will not until the existing equipment is fully depreciated and technically obsolete. If it is a new casino you can expect facial recognition, in some form to be present at the opening. I predict five years will produce major inroads into wide scale implementation and 10 years it will be a standard.

    What interactions have you had with this technology?

    Certainly my message of gloom and despair overlooks the ingenuity of AP's to find ways to beat the house, but the game and its access are changing and we better pay attention.
    There is no reason why you are being downvoted...

    With increase computational power associated with GPU processing, and the advent of newer Abstract Data Structures such as NNets, biometrics will be the final battle against the AP community at large. Blackjack will be the test-bed, after that, any AP move will be found and your time as a person of capital gains inside a gambling establishment will come to an end. AP at blackjack? Sorry, can't play slots on this progressive jackpot, or AP this-here newfangled table game. Maybe try out our poker room? Oh, that's right...poker is dying just like any other AP opportunity.

    There is one avenue we as a community can do, but will not happen at all in reality: legislate mandatory AP play. Make it unlawful to bar a skilled player nor can you change any dynamics of any game that the player choose to operate. Sadly, the SCOTUS will never take this on as precedent has been set many times over. And the fact that all the wealthy owners of our elected officials will never let the voices and concerns of the people be heard.

    The old-timers here had a great 50+ years run attacking blackjack. Unfortunately, like many industries, automation will be the death throw of an industry. This just so happens to be card counting.

    If the application of biometrics causes the end of blackjack card counting and any/all AP opportunism then I hope Gen Y and Gen Z apathy towards casinos breaks the industry. I play because I know that I can beat the casino, or at least I think I can. That is the winning strategy for the casinos, not making unbeatable games.

    To all the gaming experts, security, management, and otherwise: Leave people alone and let the few actually win. If not, say goodbye to your future income source due to your own incompetence. You have been peacefully been warned.

  3. #3


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    Zzzzzz

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by dogman_1234 View Post
    There is no reason why you are being downvoted...

    With increase computational power associated with GPU processing, and the advent of newer Abstract Data Structures such as NNets, biometrics will be the final battle against the AP community at large. Blackjack will be the test-bed, after that, any AP move will be found and your time as a person of capital gains inside a gambling establishment will come to an end. AP at blackjack? Sorry, can't play slots on this progressive jackpot, or AP this-here newfangled table game. Maybe try out our poker room? Oh, that's right...poker is dying just like any other AP opportunity.

    There is one avenue we as a community can do, but will not happen at all in reality: legislate mandatory AP play. Make it unlawful to bar a skilled player nor can you change any dynamics of any game that the player choose to operate. Sadly, the SCOTUS will never take this on as precedent has been set many times over. And the fact that all the wealthy owners of our elected officials will never let the voices and concerns of the people be heard.

    The old-timers here had a great 50+ years run attacking blackjack. Unfortunately, like many industries, automation will be the death throw of an industry. This just so happens to be card counting.

    If the application of biometrics causes the end of blackjack card counting and any/all AP opportunism then I hope Gen Y and Gen Z apathy towards casinos breaks the industry. I play because I know that I can beat the casino, or at least I think I can. That is the winning strategy for the casinos, not making unbeatable games.

    To all the gaming experts, security, management, and otherwise: Leave people alone and let the few actually win. If not, say goodbye to your future income source due to your own incompetence. You have been peacefully been warned.
    First, I dont think AP card counting affects Casino bottom line sufficiently for them to invest in this technology for the implied reasons (to stop card counting). All they have to do is go to CSM's only for that. If they do invest it, it will be for a host of other reasons such as identifying anyone who commits a crime on casino property.

  5. #5


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    Stealth wrote
    no other rational explanation. SLS, Ceasars and Cosmopolitan on the Vegas strip are high probability candidates.
    Never saw you in action, so I can't say if your act/demeanour is good or not or how your betting spread/level looks like but SLS and Cosmo are simply paranoid asylums. From my standpoint, Ceasar's Vegas is a tolerant joint and I would not be incline on putting your recent problems on the new technology in these places.
    G Man

  6. #6


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    Weren't you about as red-hot as you can get in LV when you got backed off at those places?
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  7. #7


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    I have played at the Cosmo for a while without so much of a shadow of heat. Most of you need to work on your act, and plan how to get away with raising your bet, instead of worrying about extracting every one tenth of a %, and memorizing 50 indices.
    Why don't you watch real gamblers play and learn from them. If you pay close attention for hours at a time you will get a 5 star education for free. When you watch totally ignore the count.
    What I dislike about the Cosmo is the end of their 3-2 DD game.
    nycpro

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by RS View Post
    Weren't you about as red-hot as you can get in LV when you got backed off at those places?
    Yes, but it was the manner that they approached me that causes me to think they did it with facial recognition. At Cosmo and SLS I was stopped walking in the table games area with out playing, Caesars, I spotted one shoe flat bet and security was there to escort me out. Never gave any of them ID but they all called me by name when informing me of what a low life I am.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by nycpro View Post
    Why don't you watch real gamblers play and learn from them.
    Really appreciate you offering to help but you see I am not a gambler, real or otherwise.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    First, I dont think AP card counting affects Casino bottom line sufficiently for them to invest in this technology for the implied reasons (to stop card counting).
    Whether it causes enough financial harm or not is not the issue, they fear it enough to do all of these things. CSM's also run off the ploppy's which they do not want to do. BTW, they are not doing facial recognition JUST for card counters.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Never saw you in action, so I can't say if your act/demeanour is good or not or how your betting spread/level looks
    The "issues" at the places I mentioned occurred with me being in a spotter role occasionally, but primarily entering from a call in and flat betting large bets out the remaining positive counts. There is no ramp.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  12. #12


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    I had a nasty barring at a Caesars property. I wasn't betting big, playing long, playing rated, or in any public databases. My guess is that it was facial recognition because I had played long and hard at a few of their other properties so they might have been on the lookout for me.

  13. #13


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
    I had a nasty barring at a Caesars property. I wasn't betting big, playing long, playing rated, or in any public databases. My guess is that it was facial recognition because I had played long and hard at a few of their other properties so they might have been on the lookout for me.
    Yes. They recognized your face. I have lots of doubts about whether or not software is to blame. You guys are barking up the wrong tree, IMO.

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