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Thread: fab 4 and standard surrender strategy

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  1. #1


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    fab 4 and standard surrender strategy

    Hey guys, the casino i always go offers s17 6d surrender game, and i spoke to few card counters, they dont like to surrender their hands even they bet big, what they do is they only stands 16 vs all dealer non bust card at any positive count, or they hit all other stiff hands"like 15 vs 10,16 vs 10 at negative counts all hit"

    I think its a ok strategy when i play small at normal count since i only bet one unit, but when counts goes high i bet alot more, one misplay could be really costly. So any experts here give an advice maybe i should switch to fab 4 and basic surrender strategy when tc >+3 and i start bet big

    Thanks alot




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  2. #2


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    learn the surrender indexes and use them

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by abc4000 View Post
    " ... card counters, they dont like to surrender."
    I fully appreciate the (unintentional) humor. You spoke to a few PLOPPIES.

    The VALUE of Late Surrender increases proportionally to the numbers of

    decks in play, but that value doesn't change by more than 0.20%

    It is worth the least in a Single Deck game.

    The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v.

    The Card Counter gains much more - depending on his bet

    spread AND how complete his set of Late Surrender indices is.

    For me, in the game described it is worth at least 0.95%

    With good penetration, I play H17 shoes with Late Surrender.



  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v.

    ZMF, I believe the gain is .073% for LS in the S 17 game.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-18-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    "ZMF, I believe the gain is .073% for the S 17 game."
    When dealing with rank beginners I choose to round off the figures.

    ************************************************** *********************

    With a spread of 200 to 1, deep penetration, 8 decks, and playing

    with a complete set of Hi-Opt II indices for Late Surrender the e.v.

    value for Late Surrender would be very considerable!

    Any guesses? Bueller? Bueller? ZeeBabar?


    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 06-18-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    When dealing with rank beginners I choose to round off the figures.

    ************************************************** *********************

    With a spread of 200 to 1, deep penetration, 8 decks, and playing

    with a complete set of Hi-Opt II indices for Late Surrender the e.v.

    value for Late Surrender would be very considerable!

    Any guesses? Bueller? Bueller?



    I have no idea but I suspect you will be playing the last hand of the shoe as far as the casino is concerned.

  7. #7


    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "ZMF, I believe the gain is .073% for the S 17 game."
    When dealing with rank beginners I choose to round off the figures.

    You're not reading. You're off by a factor of 10!

    Don


  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    You're not reading. You're off by a factor of 10!

    Don, surely you jest, the man is talking about HI OPP 11 here! Don't you know that factor's of ten are meaningless with this count. Sorry ZMF, just having some fun.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-19-2017 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #9


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    "The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v."

    You meant to write 0.07%! Those decimal places matter!

    Don


  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    I fully appreciate the (unintentional) humor. You spoke to a few PLOPPIES.

    The VALUE of Late Surrender increases proportionally to the numbers of

    decks in play, but that value doesn't change by more than 0.20%

    It is worth the least in a Single Deck game.

    The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v.

    The Card Counter gains much more - depending on his bet

    spread AND how complete his set of Late Surrender indices is.

    For me, in the game described it is worth at least 0.95%

    With good penetration, I play H17 shoes with Late Surrender.


    Thanks for the advice, so do you mean i should surrender the hand accounting to fab 4 and basic strategy surrender rule



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  11. #11


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by abc4000 View Post
    Thanks for the advice, so do you mean i should surrender the hand accounting to fab 4 and basic strategy surrender rule



    ??? iPhone ????? Tapatalk
    This is why I said you need to read a book!

    Learn basic strategy cold. Master your counting system. Learn the indices. Do whatever the chart says at the given count. Bet according to a well defined ramp that preferably (IMO) comes from CVCX. Don't deviate for any reason.

    You are back on step one. You need to learn some basics before you can continue.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    This is why I said you need to read a book!

    Learn basic strategy cold. Master your counting system. Learn the indices. Do whatever the chart says at the given count. Bet according to a well defined ramp that preferably (IMO) comes from CVCX. Don't deviate for any reason

    You are back on step one. You need to learn some basics before you can continue.

    therefinery, +1, I could not agree more. Great post.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by abc4000 View Post
    Hey guys, the casino i always go offers s17 6d surrender game, and i spoke to few card counters, they dont like to surrender their hands even they bet big, what they do is they only stands 16 vs all dealer non bust card at any positive count, or they hit all other stiff hands"like 15 vs 10,16 vs 10 at negative counts all hit"

    The few card counters that you were talking to, by chance were they okay card counters?

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