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Thread: fab 4 and standard surrender strategy

  1. #1


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    fab 4 and standard surrender strategy

    Hey guys, the casino i always go offers s17 6d surrender game, and i spoke to few card counters, they dont like to surrender their hands even they bet big, what they do is they only stands 16 vs all dealer non bust card at any positive count, or they hit all other stiff hands"like 15 vs 10,16 vs 10 at negative counts all hit"

    I think its a ok strategy when i play small at normal count since i only bet one unit, but when counts goes high i bet alot more, one misplay could be really costly. So any experts here give an advice maybe i should switch to fab 4 and basic surrender strategy when tc >+3 and i start bet big

    Thanks alot




    ??? iPhone ????? Tapatalk

  2. #2


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    learn the surrender indexes and use them

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by abc4000 View Post
    " ... card counters, they dont like to surrender."
    I fully appreciate the (unintentional) humor. You spoke to a few PLOPPIES.

    The VALUE of Late Surrender increases proportionally to the numbers of

    decks in play, but that value doesn't change by more than 0.20%

    It is worth the least in a Single Deck game.

    The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v.

    The Card Counter gains much more - depending on his bet

    spread AND how complete his set of Late Surrender indices is.

    For me, in the game described it is worth at least 0.95%

    With good penetration, I play H17 shoes with Late Surrender.



  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by abc4000 View Post
    Hey guys, the casino i always go offers s17 6d surrender game, and i spoke to few card counters, they dont like to surrender their hands even they bet big, what they do is they only stands 16 vs all dealer non bust card at any positive count, or they hit all other stiff hands"like 15 vs 10,16 vs 10 at negative counts all hit"

    The few card counters that you were talking to, by chance were they okay card counters?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox View Post
    " ... By chance were they okay card counters?"
    O.K. ~ or ~ K.O. ?


  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    The Basic Strategist in the 6 deck game gains 0.70% in e.v.

    ZMF, I believe the gain is .073% for LS in the S 17 game.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-18-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    "ZMF, I believe the gain is .073% for the S 17 game."
    When dealing with rank beginners I choose to round off the figures.

    ************************************************** *********************

    With a spread of 200 to 1, deep penetration, 8 decks, and playing

    with a complete set of Hi-Opt II indices for Late Surrender the e.v.

    value for Late Surrender would be very considerable!

    Any guesses? Bueller? Bueller? ZeeBabar?


    Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 06-18-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash View Post
    When dealing with rank beginners I choose to round off the figures.

    ************************************************** *********************

    With a spread of 200 to 1, deep penetration, 8 decks, and playing

    with a complete set of Hi-Opt II indices for Late Surrender the e.v.

    value for Late Surrender would be very considerable!

    Any guesses? Bueller? Bueller?



    I have no idea but I suspect you will be playing the last hand of the shoe as far as the casino is concerned.

  9. #9


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    the value of late surrender is inflated considerably. who said he is spreading . i would never make assumption when the post didn't say he was the one spreading .

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    the value of late surrender is inflated considerably. who said he is spreading . i would never make assumption when the post didn't say he was the one spreading .

    I realized ZMF was giving an example, my reference to you was meant to be anyone that was willing to try that. Sorry ZMF for the wrong appearance.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-18-2017 at 03:13 PM.

  11. #11


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    What you think is impossible is probably possible. Have you seen a player threw cards right at the dealer and nothing happened ? I never did that that but that is just saying a lot of stuff is actually possible.

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    the value of late surrender is inflated considerably.

    I always put the value of late surrender to a card counter as far greater than a basic strategy player. For a card counter I believe it is worth in the neighborhood of 0.250% versus 0.073% to a basic strategy player in a six deck S17 game.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by stopgambling View Post
    What you think is impossible is probably possible. Have you seen a player threw cards right at the dealer and nothing happened ? I never did that that but that is just saying a lot of stuff is actually possible.
    Around twenty years ago my first introduction to higher stakes started innocent enough I began the shoe with a one hand bet of $15, near the end of the shoe while playing two hands of $200 both losers doubled my bet with two hands of $400 each which turned with splits and a double "that turned to 21" I had two k on the felt and I was I admit scared as hell as the dealer busted. On my return visit I was flat bet and only lost a small amount of points thanks prior to reading a very valuable post from Flash "that's what he called himself at the time" warning players about a few unfortunate players who had frozen all 6000 of their points.
    Last edited by BoSox; 06-18-2017 at 06:29 PM.

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