Money Confiscated at the Niagara Falls Border

[ZenMaster_Flash]

+1

[BJtoronto]

You didn't say if you declared to Canada Customs prior to exit. If you didn't, that may well have been part of the problem, as the Canadian dollar equivalent in both sums mentioned us in excess if CAD 10k.

If this us correct t, then your omission could well have contributed to your troubles. In your favour was the upfront declaration. Though ignorance if the law us not excusable, honesty is in your favour. There will likely be a seizure if fumes, a euphemism in this case, that your penalty will end yo being about $250 or $300 USD, though it would still be a good idea to get some legal advice.

I did indeed declare on the Canada side with myself having 9500 and my friend having 8500. I also have texts from the week prior from my friend confirming his intention to borrow.

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[BJtoronto]

I think the issue is that they fumbled up disclosing to the officer in the first place. This couldn't have gone as "clean" as in the OP's post. Once that red flag goes up and reasonable doubt workable, they go straight into protocol.

I could see the officers head as the OP tried to tell him the story of the "borrowing" with his friends lol.

Wrong. The initial declaration was very clear. When I cross the border I always tell the agent exactly what I'm.cartying right away even if it is below the 10k threshold. I would have had no problem declaring all it. I just thought since the money was legitimately given to my friend as a "loan" it would be more honest to declare separately.

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[Freightman]

I did indeed declare on the Canada side with myself having 9500 and my friend having 8500. I also have texts from the week prior from my friend confirming his intention to borrow.

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You may if may not have a stamped copy of the Canadian declaration. If not, go back and request a copy of the print screen which will show the declaration. Also, a copy of the email from your friend. ThE US issue centres around structuring, which should easily be mitigated under the scenario described. Should assist you well in your endeavours.

[BJtoronto]

For doing their jobs? By the letter of the law?

I would love to have your legal opinion on the matter Frank.

Suppose I were to cross the border by declaring all the money myself and then, like I had previously intended, hand my friend the $8500. Would this not be deceptive?

Let's complicate the matter further. My friend takes the $8500 and doubles his money. One of us now has to declare the $17000. Who would make the declaration leaving the country? If it was him, as it should be, he would have no proof of an initial declaration. If I was making the declaration do I lie and say that it's my money? Do I say that I gave my friend funds to borrow once I crossed and that I am now declaring my funds that he borrowed on his behalf? The next question from the CBA would be why are you declaring money that is not yours.

The absurdity of these results leads me to believe that "borrowing" money from friends is not acceptable even in cases where the borrowing is legitimate.

I do realize that anyone accused of structuring could argue that they were just "borrowing" the money. But are there no cases where this can be legitimate? Especially when "borrowing" saves us money from currency spreads?

My friend and I had text messages confirming the intention to borrow on our phone. The source of the funds could have easily been confirmed through my banking app on my phone as well. The agent did not care to see this even when I told him I would show him.

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[BJtoronto]

You may if may not have a stamped copy of the Canadian declaration. If not, go back and request a copy of the print screen which will show the declaration. Also, a copy of the email from your friend. ThE US issue centres around structuring, which should easily be mitigated under the scenario described. Should assist you well in your endeavours.

All of this was sent to my lawyer in addition to the text messages showing the intention to borrow and bank statements confirming the source of the funds.

My lawyer is confident that we will get all of the funds back with the evidence provided.

Thanks for the advice and input it is appreciated.

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[VABJ]

Each of you should have just declared the money on themselves and end of story. By talking about borrowing and loaning, you opened yourself up to this, sadly. So I think saying too much here is what got you in this pickle. Hope you get it all back since they should not have taken it in the first place...

[stringer]

My girlfriend and I (Canadian) crossed the Lewiston Bridge on our way to a mid New York state casino about three months ago and we were really surprised at the scrutiny we were subjected to as well. She was carrying about $7500 US and I was carrying about $5500 US. Despite being straight up with the US agent about these sums and the fact that they were separate and not "joint" funds we were asked to pull over to the inspection area. When the guy asked where we were going I also stated honestly that we were going to a specific mid-state New York state casino. Whether this had anything to do with anything was not clear to me. This was about 11 am on a Saturday.
Anyway, we were "processed" into a secondary higher security area with secured access and with lots of guys wearing guns and grim expressions. Next, each of us in turn were escorted to separate rooms so we could expose and count the funds in front of the agents. We had to surrender the car keys and they searched the vehicle. (Later they accused me of not declaring all monies in the vehicle as I had some $10 or so in coins for tolls in the ash tray. I also had about $15 in casino chips that I forgot about in one of my bags.. (I collect them)).
Of course the amounts we showed agreed with the amounts we stated so there was never really a problem. My girlfriend, who was really pissed with all this then demanded to see someone higher up and she started arguing with this guy. "Hey, I am a banker and I am familiar with all the money laundering rules and limits and you had no good reason (since we were each under the $10000 US) declaration limit to pull us over". {Christ I thought, just shut up so we can get out of here}.
Anyway, you can import/export any amount of cash, just declare it.
Now, back to the original post. When leaving Canada you don't go through Canadian customs, you just proceed to US customs, so why did you state that you did??
Also, Seneca Niagara has for many years had CSM's on all tables (except for a few in high limit), so I don't see the appeal of that place. As per my last visit there about 3 years ago, on the very busiest peak Saturday evening they might use shoes on a few BJ tables but they were cutting out 3 decks (from 8).

[stringer]

In all the decades coming (driving) back to Canada in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area I have never had Canadian Customs show any interest in cash coming into Canada.... just my observation.....

[BJtoronto]

My girlfriend and I (Canadian) crossed the Lewiston Bridge on our way to a mid New York state casino about three months ago and we were really surprised at the scrutiny we were subjected to as well. She was carrying about $7500 US and I was carrying about $5500 US. Despite being straight up with the US agent about these sums and the fact that they were separate and not "joint" funds we were asked to pull over to the inspection area. When the guy asked where we were going I also stated honestly that we were going to a specific mid-state New York state casino. Whether this had anything to do with anything was not clear to me. This was about 11 am on a Saturday.
Anyway, we were "processed" into a secondary higher security area with secured access and with lots of guys wearing guns and grim expressions. Next, each of us in turn were escorted to separate rooms so we could expose and count the funds in front of the agents. We had to surrender the car keys and they searched the vehicle. (Later they accused me of not declaring all monies in the vehicle as I had some $10 or so in coins for tolls in the ash tray. I also had about $15 in casino chips that I forgot about in one of my bags.. (I collect them)).
Of course the amounts we showed agreed with the amounts we stated so there was never really a problem. My girlfriend, who was really pissed with all this then demanded to see someone higher up and she started arguing with this guy. "Hey, I am a banker and I am familiar with all the money laundering rules and limits and you had no good reason (since we were each under the $10000 US) declaration limit to pull us over". {Christ I thought, just shut up so we can get out of here}.
Anyway, you can import/export any amount of cash, just declare it.
Now, back to the original post. When leaving Canada you don't go through Canadian customs, you just proceed to US customs, so why did you state that you did??
Also, Seneca Niagara has for many years had CSM's on all tables (except for a few in high limit), so I don't see the appeal of that place. As per my last visit there about 3 years ago, on the very busiest peak Saturday evening they might use shoes on a few BJ tables but they were cutting out 3 decks (from 8).

You are wrong on two fronts here. One, you must declare all monetary instruments when leaving a country, this means it is the law to declare over 10k cad to Canadian customs when leaving Canada. Since I had 9500 USD on me this is over 10k cad and it is therefore a requirement to declare in Canada as well.

As for Seneca Niagara I suggest you make another trip. You can pm me if you're interested in the details of the game.

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[BJtoronto]

In all the decades coming (driving) back to Canada in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area I have never had Canadian Customs show any interest in cash coming into Canada.... just my observation.....

I didn't get a chance to return back to Canada because I was denied entry to the USA after the confiscation.

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[Masterhoudini]

A very similar scenario happened to me, similar amounts at the same border-luckily the outcome was we were let off with a warning without seizure. My blackjack teammate and I were accused or structuring and pinned our testimony against each other for 2 hours. They even had the audacity to say we were meeting up to exchange the money because one of my messages said, awesome let's meet up later in the parking lot- WHICH WAS ACTUALLY, in reference to meeting a totally unrelated friend in the parking lot to carpool to a concert together. Sometimes it's actually ridiculous what kind of stories idiotic border patrol can fabricate.

Long story short- we were informed that we "need to be upfront and consistent, and not lie about our whereabouts." I mistakenly said we were shopping- which was true and my friend said we were gambling- also true, whereas in the past we would both just straight up say we were professional card counters end with x amount of money end of story. Moral of the story is once you cross the first time- just stick to that same story every time. It's sad but once they peg you as whatever in their database- pro blackjack player, you are basically not allowed to declare you are crossing for any other activities.