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Thread: Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

  1. #14


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    Ic
    Last edited by pilotzone; 08-01-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #15


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    [QUOTE=CanadaKevinB;222010]
    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    He mentioned 6 figure bankroll, and an RoR of 0.01%. His max bet being $500 pretty much backs up all of the mathematics there that you are questioning. Quote ends here!
    The math only adds up if 3 has a minimal 6 figure, $100,000. It would have been more accurate to say he had a high 5 figure roll, then I would have figured around 90k, but instead when someone says 6 figures, a think of around $500,000.
    For me, with a 100k roll, $500 would be my smallest top bet, I start off betting with a EV of half of a %, then would bet Kelly, capping off with 5000$ on my >5%, which are not many times.
    Yes, I know some of you don't want to get barred, and play below the radar, but this is a mistake, unless you are not to serious about making money, and are doing this more as a hobby.







    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

    First, Kevin, you're making too many assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions.

    Secondly, you're not convincing anybody that "Playing below the radar" is a mistake. Least of all myself or T3 lol.

  3. #16


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    Actually with kelly you are supposed to adjust for the variance of the game, so betting 5k with a 100k bankroll on a 5% edge at blackjack would be betting more than kelly which is not a good idea.

  4. #17


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    [QUOTE=moses;222021]What wrong
    Last edited by pilotzone; 08-01-2017 at 11:28 PM.

  5. #18


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    [QUOTE=Exoter175;222018]
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post


    First, Kevin, you're making too many assumptions, just because I am mentally handicapped, I can take meds, I can function get like any other retard!

    Secondly, you're not convincing anybody that "Playing below the radar" is a mistake. Least of all myself or T3 lol.
    Last edited by pilotzone; 08-01-2017 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #19


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    [QUOTE=moses;222043]Sorry Kev.
    Last edited by pilotzone; 08-01-2017 at 11:24 PM.

  7. #20


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    Seems like
    Last edited by pilotzone; 08-01-2017 at 11:25 PM.

  8. #21


    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post

    Not sure if your allowed to speak for everyone, but as far as you and 3, that's fine.
    I have played mostly above the radar, and I wouldn't have done it any other way. Max results in the least amount of time. By playing below the radar your never sure of what you could have gotten away with.
    I would keep an eye on 3, as he seems to be losing it. He can't understand simple concepts, and just is a person who likes to hear himself argue. Lol
    Yikes, its logic like that right there, that makes me cringe.

    Lets not confuse callous recklessness for "skillful" APing. Just because you like to play "above the radar", does not mean you're doing it "right".

    Part of being a successful AP is being able to get away with what we can, without being caught, much less being noticed.

    Playing my way, I've been 86'd from a single casino, and it wasn't for counting or even being an AP, and I promise you, I've made far more than you'll ever make, and I'll continue to do so by flying VERY low under that radar, and I don't mean this to brag.

    I truly pity those that get his half cocked, harebrained idea that playing larger stakes with larger spreads to maximize their playing EV, is somehow worth more "long term" EV, despite the ridiculously disproportional increase to heat and player attention.

    The "right" way to play, in my opinion, will always be that of a "longevity" play, which doesn't have to mean poor games with lower denoms. It simply means to put emphasis on player survival, like RoR and heat levels, before EV. If SCORE alone is determining the games you're playing, you WILL NOT LAST LONG as a counter. Simple as that. For some, that's okay, they only want to double a bankroll and hang their hat on that. For me, this is my job, my life, my livelihood, my well being. Obvious to some, I'm far more than just a card counter, but apparent to all, should be the fact that all AP plays can be handled more than one way, and as the old saying goes, you can Fleece a Sheep many times, but you can skin it only once.

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    LMAO. Nothing better in this world the a 4-legged friend.
    True story, I <3 my doggo.

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    Yikes, its logic like that right there, that makes me cringe.

    Lets not confuse callous recklessness for "skillful" APing. Just because you like to play "above the radar", does not mean you're doing it "right".

    Part of being a successful AP is being able to get away with what we can, without being caught, much less being noticed.

    Playing my way, I've been 86'd from a single casino, and it wasn't for counting or even being an AP, and I promise you, I've made far more than you'll ever make, and I'll continue to do so by flying VERY low under that radar, and I don't mean this to brag.

    I truly pity those that get his half cocked, harebrained idea that playing larger stakes with larger spreads to maximize their playing EV, is somehow worth more "long term" EV, despite the ridiculously disproportional increase to heat and player attention.

    The "right" way to play, in my opinion, will always be that of a "longevity" play, which doesn't have to mean poor games with lower denoms. It simply means to put emphasis on player survival, like RoR and heat levels, before EV. If SCORE alone is determining the games you're playing, you WILL NOT LAST LONG as a counter. Simple as that. For some, that's okay, they only want to double a bankroll and hang their hat on that. For me, this is my job, my life, my livelihood, my well being. Obvious to some, I'm far more than just a card counter, but apparent to all, should be the fact that all AP plays can be handled more than one way, and as the old saying goes, you can Fleece a Sheep many times, but you can skin it only once.
    +1000. I play rated at modest to low stakes and rated too! Folks just assume that conditions have not changed and the advice of 10-20 years is still valid.

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    +1000. I play rated at modest to low stakes and rated too! Folks just assume that conditions have not changed and the advice of 10-20 years is still valid.
    I know a place that deals a DD game to 1.5 pen, with DoA, DAS, RS3, NRSA, H17, NMSE. That's a .45ish game with deep pen, and ridiculous tolerance. Spread $25-$300 all day every day with it, and do it rated.

    All things considered, there are few games in the world better this one, and I've been regularly playing it for a little over a year now. Yet, let one "burn it down" player catch wind of it for a second, the game will become unplayable for years. In that year, with say, 400 hours on it, how much EV should I expect compared to someone who burned it down ONCE with a $25-$1500 spread for maybe 3 hours? The results are ludicrous and make me scratch my head as to WHY people think they can just run around spreading chunky green/black and get "more" out of the game than anyone else. They'll certainly get more hourly, but play fewer hours, with fewer opportunities, and ultimately have a shelf life of only a few years, whereas I can maintain 400 hours/yr at this property and just treat them like an ATM.

  12. #25


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    Is it better to maximize CE or minimize N0?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
    Yikes, its logic like that right there, that makes me cringe.




    Playing my way, I've been 86'd from a single casino, and it wasn't for counting or even being an AP, and I promise you, I've made far more than you'll ever make, and I'll continue to do so by flying VERY low under that radar, and I don't mean this to brag.

    you can Fleece a Sheep many times, but you can skin it only once.
    Exoter, you just keep playing the way you do, I could care less ! What do you know? Just keep plowing, with your head down and your mouth shut!!! You have no idea who I am, and what I have done! You have a big mouth saying " I don't mean to brag" BBUTT- I've made far more than you'll ever make." Made what, far more stupid remarks, far more assuming results.
    As far as fleecing a sheep many times story, who is going to get more fleece you or me??? Hmmmm -me !!!! While your waiting a couple of months to fleece your sheep again, I have already fleeced ten!!
    You been kicked out of one casino, but not for good play! Must of been your big mouth that got you kicked out!!
    Last edited by pilotzone; 05-24-2017 at 10:39 PM.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    Exoter, you just keep playing the way you do, I could care less ! What do you know?
    What do I know? More about being an AP than any AP here on the forum. I know more games, exploits, strategies, and vulnerabilities than anyone. I've been asked countless times to do interviews, write books, essays, and articles, you name it. I simply don't have the time to put whats in my head on paper, and in a manner that others might gain some insight from it. I'm also a very busy human being with insomnia, so my waking hours are spent making money, while my supposed "sleeping" hours are busy here replying to "hardasses" such as yourself, who think that because they won $10,000 one time at a casino, that they are the next Stu Ungar.



    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    Just keep plowing, with your head down and your mouth shut!!! You have no idea who I am, and what I have done! You have a big mouth saying " I don't mean to brag" BBUTT- I've made far more than you'll ever make." Made what, far more stupid remarks, far more assuming results.
    This might shock you, but I simply don't care who you are. You make silly, uneducated remarks about the AP world that you clearly know very little about, and assume to be on equal footing as the rest of us, while the rest of us can see right through the obvious facade you're putting on for us.

    Honest to god, I don't mean to brag, I mean to educate. I made more money than you and just about everyone else here on this forum last year, the year before, and very likely this year with the start that I've had. I've seen many players like yourself "burn out bright" with the same strategies, who come on here trying to convince everyone that the only way to play is to "burn em down" with high Risk, high EV strategies, with very little discipline and skill to actually pull them off, much less the bankroll access required to actually pull it off. This was evident by the way you attacked T3's bankroll response, talking about his max bet of $500 and RoR of 0.01%, and calling shenanigans on his bankroll sizing, talking about what you'd be doing with his BR, suggesting yours is much smaller. Also suggesting that you are unfamiliar with RoR in respect to actually making a living from your BR.

    But what do I know, remember?


    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    As far as fleecing a sheep many times story, who is going to get more fleece you or me??? Hmmmm -me !!!!
    Me, by leaps and bounds. While you're out there daydreaming about card counting every weekend or once a month, I'll hit upwards of 45 casinos in that month, and profit $3k on BJ, $4k on slots, another $7k in promos/marketing, all the while earning all the top card levels, ensuring I can sleep and eat relatively expense free throughout the year, as I travel from state to state. Meanwhile, while you're daydreaming, I'm taking 10% of my monthly profits and sinking it into my retirement account, keeping 5% cash on hand, and 5% towards misc investing.



    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    While your waiting a couple of months to fleece your sheep again,
    This shows how little you understand what I wrote, and how little you understand the "longevity" game, as well as the "AP lifestyle".

    I'm not trying to make an enemy out of you CanadaKevinB, but its quite clear you have very little relative experience here by comparison to the average posters you've been arguing with since you've joined. Rather than argue and "dick measure" you should consider researching some of these topics to formulate better opinions on them. You'd learn a lot from a guys like T3, BigPlayer, SmallCapGrowth, Don S, Tarzan, and even Flash.



    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaKevinB View Post
    I have already fleeced ten!!
    You been kicked out of one casino, but not for good play! Must of been your big mouth that got you kicked out!!
    I got kicked out of the casino because I was double crossed by a greedy former partner of mine, if you truly wanted to know.

    No need to be an asshole, Kev.

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